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EmoTracker
Discussion / general
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ChiefAkela 2018-09-28 23:43
where. (I didn't see it in the Emotracker list of tracker files haha)
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JRJathome 2018-09-28 23:43
There's no MM pack for EmoTracker.
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ChiefAkela 2018-09-28 23:44
Ahh. I saw MM mentioned above so I was confused XD. That sounds kinda fun.
23:44
I had the import before it came out in the US. that was..challenging to say the least to beat..but I did it with all masks
23:44
(then got the US CE in the mail from nintendo with soundtrack haha because of buying it through NP)
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JRJathome 2018-09-28 23:45
The current randomizer uses a special rom that randomizes items based on your name. From what I understand, the logic is horrible, so you'd have to know glitches to finish.
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ChiefAkela 2018-09-28 23:45
ow. Okay that sounds painful. haha. (the last time I saw the OoT randomizer it wasn't so good either so its kinda shocking its 'good' now!)
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Natalie 2018-09-28 23:51
There
23:51
is
23:51
no logic in the MM rando
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TheClassicalGod 2018-09-28 23:52
Man, you got on the inverted pack done quick. lol
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EmoSaru 2018-09-28 23:56
It took about 2 hours, but it's easier because while the dark world is completely different, as is death mountain, the lower lightworld really is still all open, dungeons aside, with minor differences between things you can do as a bunny and things you can't
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rand(0) 2018-09-29 00:41
there is actually an mp2 seed generator that also patches the iso
00:41
https://github.com/henriquegemignani/randovania
00:45
i do look forward to the day where prime1/2 and la mulana get their own emotracker pack
00:45
but given that the logic is quite complex (at least for prime 2 and la mulana) that will probably take a long time to create
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Vivi 2018-09-29 05:40
Is there a specific place we should report errors in the inverted tracker logic ?
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Ninban 2018-09-29 05:46
#pack-support
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PhntmBlackIce 2018-09-29 11:05
I frequently accidently right click and completely remove a location. Is there any way to undo that besides a full reset?
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JRJathome 2018-09-29 11:08
You can press F11 to make all locations show on the map. Then just pin the location you'd like to undo and right click the chest icon.
11:08
Afterwards, just press F11 again to hide the extra locations again.
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PhntmBlackIce 2018-09-29 11:09
thank you
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Battle00333 2018-09-29 16:51
ima take this new tracker on a testrun
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ChiefAkela 2018-09-29 19:53
Quick random question by the way. Uh. Is there a good discord I can go to, for suggestions on setting up an emulator/help? I'd liek to try OoT randomized with the retexture packs but so many issues and glitches and things generally notworking on any emulator haha
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JARP 2018-09-29 20:07
go to the OoT discord
20:07
it's in the faq
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ChiefAkela 2018-09-29 20:08
Thankeya
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chief_sallad 2018-09-30 00:01
@WillardJBradley
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EmoSaru 2018-09-30 00:08
While I'm all for harassing Willard in many situations, why are we tagging him here?
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JRJathome 2018-09-30 00:22
Not sure why here specifically. He was mad about mods being pinged in another discord and told us all to ping him.
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Cornben 2018-10-02 14:09
Is it bad i can't get chathud to work?
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EmoSaru 2018-10-02 16:04
You’ve added your channel name to the configuration file, and right clicked on the twitch icon in the bottom right and connected?
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Cornben 2018-10-03 10:51
yes i did and i can't seem to get it to connect
10:51
@EmoSaru do i need to connect it somehow through my twitch account or does amending the file do that?
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EmoSaru 2018-10-03 11:04
amending the file should do it
11:04
when you say it doesn't connect
11:04
you mean the indicator does not turn green?
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Cornben 2018-10-03 11:04
correct, i would be more than happy to screen share if you're able to help
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EmoSaru 2018-10-03 11:05
I've got about 15 minutes, sure, go ahead.
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Battle00333 2018-10-03 16:35
no inverted keysanity yet, right?¨
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EmoSaru 2018-10-03 16:41
not until I feel like regular inverted is settled
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Battle00333 2018-10-03 16:51
time for some DYI makeshift solution
16:51
AKA; time to run 2 instances of the tracker
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EmoSaru 2018-10-03 17:30
okay
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Ender of Games 2018-10-04 16:29
Hey, I'm bad and need halp, preferably within 30 minutes 😦
16:29
I'm using the inverted map tracker, because I'm bad at inverted and about to stream it for the first time, but I don't know where the background is in the overrides
16:30
I just want it one solid colour, no shadows behind the items
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JRJathome 2018-10-04 16:37
Which window do you want the shadows gone? The tracker or the broadcast window?
16:37
Or both?
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Ender of Games 2018-10-04 16:37
I just got it, there was more than one dropshadow location in tracker.json
16:38
What is the difference? Is broadcast the separate window just for streaming?
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JRJathome 2018-10-04 16:38
Yeah
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Ender of Games 2018-10-04 16:39
Alright. I got a lot of overrides here that I didn't mean to alter, and I'm not 100% sure what I did, but that seems to have worked, thanks!
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JRJathome 2018-10-04 16:39
👍
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gonutz89 2018-10-04 17:28
hi sorry but got a question about the Oracle of Seasons Tracker in EmoTracker
17:30
unless im somthign wich i might be the map tracker part is missing a chest in the Snake Remains Dungeon
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JRJathome 2018-10-04 17:38
@Herreteman would be the one to ask.
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gonutz89 2018-10-04 17:38
ok
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Ender of Games 2018-10-04 20:27
Ok, I used it, and it was good 'n' all... but:
20:29
When I got fire supplies w/ my light world access it gave my a yellow over ice palace. iirc that's the ability to do something, but it isn't in logic. I did not have mirror or flute (edit: or flippers), so I couldn't access the lower right corner to fake flips in the dark world. (edited)
20:30
Is there another minor glitch? I can't even do bunny revival.
20:31
Also: TR might not be completable without mirror, so it should be coloured like DP without boots. Our seed today was proof of that.
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JRJathome 2018-10-04 20:44
Colors have different meaning in dungeons. Yellow indicates you can potentially beat the boss, but not all chests can be reached.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-04 20:53
From what I can tell, regarding my own interpretation: Dungeons: Red: No Access Orange: Some Access (at least one location inaccessible) Yellow: Access with sequence breaks or Unknown Access (due to potentially-blocked item like Boots for potentially-required Torch item, etc) Green: Full Access
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Vivi 2018-10-04 20:55
Yeah, but he is right, TR shouldnt be green without mirror
20:55
Mirror can be hard required for TR
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-04 20:56
With key placement, it could require an entry from Mimic Cave?
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Vivi 2018-10-04 20:56
mimic/laser bridge
20:56
all 4 small keys could be on laser bridge for example
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-04 20:56
In those instances I've heard of "Required Medallion is in TR"?
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Vivi 2018-10-04 20:57
required medallion could be in TR yeah
20:59
Ice palace does become orange with fire rod. But Ice palace is not accessible from west/south dark world
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Ender of Games 2018-10-04 21:08
TR was green, not yellow or orange. I don't think anyone took a potential of not beating it into account
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Vivi 2018-10-04 21:09
Yeah, without mirror, TR might be uncompletable
21:09
therefore shouldnt be green
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EmoSaru 2018-10-04 22:44
I'll double check to make sure not having mirror shows up yellow
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x10power | FFMQ Tracker 2018-10-08 14:49
So everytime I update emotracter I need to edit the repository file with my channel name?
14:50
Wait nvm, I think I got it to work now
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EmoSaru 2018-10-08 15:19
you should not have to add it to the file again after updating
15:19
it will stay set
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x10power | FFMQ Tracker 2018-10-09 14:11
yeah I was back a few versions it seems
14:12
I will pay attention next update just in case though!
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RetroNutcase 2018-10-10 15:53
So uh, question. I've seen two Super Metroid randomizers floating out there. Which one is considered the "current" one?
15:53
I've seen both a downloadable (V21) and a v2.9 that's web based.
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rand(0) 2018-10-10 15:54
https://itemrando.supermetroid.run
15:54
or https://randommetroidsolver.pythonanywhere.com/ for more/better customization options (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-10-10 15:55
General Statement: This sort of thing is better asked in the game discord
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RetroNutcase 2018-10-10 15:55
Noted, and thanks
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EmoSaru 2018-10-10 15:56
No worries - I actually don't have a valid discord link to hand for the base Super Metroid Randomizer, so if anybody does have one, please link it here and I will add it to the FAQ like the rest.
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Natalie 2018-10-10 15:58
I can find a link to the Super Metroid SRL discord from SMxALttP, but I don't know if there's an actual rando-specific discord for SM
15:59
I haven't poked my nose in there to check if it serves dual purpose
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SauceRelic 2018-10-10 16:21
The SRL discord is all I found as well, there's a single channel for the randomizer
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-10 18:33
And, realistically, if you've got questions about itemrando.supermetroid.run, you should be able to get info on that from the SMALttPR Discord since it's the same Lead Dev on both.
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Espeon 2018-10-11 07:13
the reason sm rando has no extra discord is because it's made by speedrunners for speedrunners, so everyone who would use it is already on the srl discord
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EmoSaru 2018-10-11 09:28
Imagine, a randomizer built for speedrunners by speedrunners... the dream.
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Davkilla101 2018-10-11 22:20
Is there still no GC Twilight Princess randomizer?
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JRJathome 2018-10-11 22:54
Not really a question for this discord. Looking into it though, there doesn't seem to be one for the GC version, but there is a 'beta quest' for the Wii U version. Sounds like it requires glitches though, just like OoT's beta quest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql7qzX1mPIY
dragonbane
Twilight Princess HD - Beta Quest and Bingo RELEASED
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Davkilla101 2018-10-11 22:55
Yeah, but that's TP HD, not something I really have access to, tbh
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JRJathome 2018-10-11 22:56
If you mean is there a randomizer like ZOoTR and ALttPR, then no. It doesn't exist yet.
22:56
As far as I can tell
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Davkilla101 2018-10-11 22:56
Aw, was hoping for it since TP is my second favorite Zelda
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Ninban 2018-10-12 05:52
Making a rando is a long and hard process
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Sherpa 2018-10-16 07:38
"oot requires glitches" More like, OoT is one big glitch
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-16 16:38
@Solski Fots shired in #welcome .
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EmoSaru 2018-10-16 16:40
He basically asked for it in #suggestions
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-16 16:43
Oh yes. I did follow that. Just making an observation as I do.
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Solski 2018-10-16 16:49
Its beautiful
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Espeon 2018-10-16 17:23
lmao
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WillardJBradley 2018-10-16 19:24
I approve
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MrJordilicious 2018-10-17 02:11
Hi all. I'm completely new to the tracker scene if you will and I have a question. I've downloaded the app and the ALTTP package, but I was wondering, but exactly does it work? I want to start streaming ALTTP but can I use the item and map views to show people where I am in the game and what items I have, or doesn't it work that way?
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LostThePirate 2018-10-17 02:12
#faq for info about EmoTracker's functions.
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Natalie 2018-10-17 02:13
Think of it more as a checklist than anything else
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LostThePirate 2018-10-17 02:13
You can window capture whatever you like for your streaming layouts
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MrJordilicious 2018-10-17 02:13
Yeah I checked the FAQ, but couldn't specifically find out how the app works
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Natalie 2018-10-17 02:14
Load package, click to interact with things. F2 opens broadcast view window for easy window capture. JSON scripts can be exported to make overrides.
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MrJordilicious 2018-10-17 02:15
Aah right, so basically whenever I get items in the game or visit locations, I have to check them myself? Ok that makes sense
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Natalie 2018-10-17 02:15
Yes
02:15
Automated trackers are big no-nos in the community, at least partially because they don't work for people on real original hardware
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MrJordilicious 2018-10-17 02:18
Ok I think I'm getting it
02:18
Thanks
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Monkey 2018-10-17 12:26
just a quick question why are there no chest locations in the dark world if i start the emo tracker and load the "emotracker official alttp support" pack
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fylion 2018-10-17 12:28
The chests don't show up until you have access to them.
12:28
(You can hit f11 to make them all appear at once)
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Monkey 2018-10-17 12:29
ty
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Cheezinator 2018-10-18 18:02
hey there. what is the color coding for spots on the LTTP map? all I know is green = accessible. unsure about blue, yellow, orange. thanks in advance!
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Nater_tot 2018-10-18 18:02
blue means u can find out what is in the location
18:04
yellow means you can complete it depending on the seed. like desert palace may be yellow but only if you can complete it without needing the pegasus boots. (no small key on the torch) or say escape is yellow because you dont have the lamp yet. you can complete it if you know the layout without having a light source
18:05
orange is you can proceed into it and get a chest or so in the area but not all of them.
18:05
at least that is what i have noticed or perceived
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Cheezinator 2018-10-18 18:05
very helpful, thank you!
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Nater_tot 2018-10-18 18:06
no problem! good luck out there on your randomizer runs!
18:07
im trying to get myself sub 3 hrs per run and am very close.
18:08
would anyone else recommend MM at this point? or TR because of the amount of chests?
Image attachment
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Davkilla101 2018-10-18 18:14
I'm curious about pack development, where can I learn more?
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Natalie 2018-10-18 18:14
mire is certainly easier to dive repeatedly 🤷
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EmoSaru 2018-10-18 18:24
@Davkilla101 Your best course of action is to start exploring the override system in the context of an existing pack and learning how to add items and locations to the json data stores. #customization-support is a good place to get your feet wet. As a general rule, my EmoTracker Official LTTP pack is the most comprehensive/up-to-date reference material, though other pack developers have certainly done cool and interesting things that are worth investigating.
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Cheezinator 2018-10-18 18:25
off the top of your heads, does anything open up in the early game if I found a random small key? trying to un-stick myself
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EmoSaru 2018-10-18 18:26
Please take game specific questions to the game Discord
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Cheezinator 2018-10-18 18:26
oh ok!
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Davkilla101 2018-10-18 18:26
Thanks, I'll look into it Saru
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EmoSaru 2018-10-18 18:26
Yeah - if you have questions about how to use the tracker pack for a game, that is fine here, but for learning the game, those discords are the best option.
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Cheezinator 2018-10-18 18:26
is there a Crossover discord, or just separate SM and LTTP discords?
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EmoSaru 2018-10-18 18:27
#faq
👍 3
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Furf 2018-10-19 23:24
what if I have a suggestion for a specific pack
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LostThePirate 2018-10-19 23:34
#pack-support if you've found a problem.
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Furf 2018-10-20 08:57
Again, suggestion, not exactly problem
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EmoSaru 2018-10-20 11:23
Is it a suggestion for a new pack, or for an existing pack? Either way, #suggestions
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MaxXNes 2018-10-21 12:34
can I save a tracking progess?
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Natalie 2018-10-21 12:41
#faq
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EmoSaru 2018-10-21 12:49
You can find save/load commands in the gear menu, as well as bound to the standard windows key combos for them.
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qwertymodo 2018-10-22 11:27
Re: the announcement about broadcast view not updating, another thing you can mention is to be sure you're not disabling Aero (there's a setting in OBS that will do that if you enable it). Disabling Aero will break a LOT of things when it comes to capturing individual windows if they're off-screen, behind another window, etc
11:30
It's been awhile since I've tested out exactly what does and doesn't work with Aero disabled, I just know when I was new to streaming, I would disable it for performance reasons because my laptop wasn't incredibly powerful, and I learned rather quickly that it was more of a headache than it was worth
👍 1
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Letsklay 2018-10-22 11:52
btw. is it possible to scale bigger? timpThink
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EmoSaru 2018-10-22 12:04
The broadcast view? Not dynamically, just scale it in OBS. If you want to modify the layouts with overrides, #customization-support
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Letsklay 2018-10-22 12:05
ye, i mean basicly the tracker / layouts
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Xel 2018-10-22 13:26
Emosaru I find it also doesn't update if you hide it under the task bar or to the far edge of the screen basically if it's out of the actual monitor view
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Hamsda 2018-10-22 13:29
I always have it off the monitor and don't have any problems rooThink
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-22 13:41
I take mine and hide it behind OBS and I don't have problems
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Tekky 2018-10-22 13:54
I can’t disable Aero because I have an unactivated version of Windows
13:54
(Plus I don’t really want to)
13:55
I’ve always put the window under my taskbar because it keeps it out of the way
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EmoSaru 2018-10-22 14:26
Near as I can tell, this is a system level behavior, so sadly there’s nothing I can do.
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Beware 2018-10-22 19:59
Is there any more elegant mobile solution than testrunners browser based tracker?
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LostThePirate 2018-10-22 20:00
Yes. This thing that you are in the Discord of right now. EmoTracker.
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Beware 2018-10-22 20:00
EmoTracker had an Android release?
20:00
Or iOS?
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LostThePirate 2018-10-22 20:00
Oh, you said mobile. EmoTracker, isn't supported in any platform other than Windows.
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Beware 2018-10-22 20:00
Thus the question
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LostThePirate 2018-10-22 20:01
Uhm, asking about the competition...? Not really cool, here.
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Beware 2018-10-22 20:01
Seriously?
20:02
If you're not on the platform it isn't even the competition
20:05
There's also nothing mentioned anywhere about not mentioning "the competition" even if I were talking about an alternative for Windows (edited)
20:10
So I suppose no is the answer?
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JRJathome 2018-10-22 20:11
The only trackers I know of are the ones in this spreadsheet. I'm not sure which ones work for android, if any. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s8-pLnWt5KTis60GUFHz5hxmWy_evbe3_YrpjAY5uh4/edit#gid=1055183448
ALttP Community Development Resources
Primary Resources Resource Name, Resource VT Version, Resource Link, Resource Developer, Resource Domain, Resource Function, References VT' s ALttPR Generator, N/ A, http:// alttpr. com/, Veetorp, Veetorp' s Domain, Generate a Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past Randomizer...
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20:12
There's a few web based ones in that list, and one is listed as multi-platform (edited)
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Beware 2018-10-22 20:13
Can't view it for whatever reason
20:13
Alas
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EmoSaru 2018-10-22 20:31
Hi. Given that no other tracker is multi-game to the extent that EmoTracker is, whether you consider your question to be about the "competition" or not, my opinion is that this Discord is not the best place to ask about it, as surely the Discord for the game you're playing would be a better place to find alternative options.
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Beware 2018-10-22 20:33
I asked in OoT, but figured I'd check here since I'd like alttp or sm x alttp just as all
20:34
Haven't found anything for mobile really and needing my PC is super inconvenient when playing on switch
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Vcool122 2018-10-23 09:03
is there any tutorial on how to make our own tracker? I want to make a tracker for 1st Zelda (there isn't)
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Hamsda 2018-10-23 09:08
it's pretty much look at other packs and ask questions right now
09:08
thats how every one of us made theirs
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EmoSaru 2018-10-23 09:14
One reason there isn’t a pack available for Z1 yet is the lack of entrance rando support for map trackers. It’s in development right now, but while you can certainly build a nice item tracker, I think a lot of Z1 players use an entrance tracker. I know at least one pack dev is just waiting for that, but the more the merrier!
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Vcool122 2018-10-23 09:17
well, the Link's Awakening tracker with map let you set wich entrance goes to what
09:18
but how do I start to make my own tracker?
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EmoSaru 2018-10-23 09:19
Hamsda gave you the answer. Start by diving into existing packs and seeing how they work. Make changes, etc. #customization-support is a good resource when you have questions.
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JRJathome 2018-10-23 09:41
What we're waiting on for Z1 and LADX is the logic support. Sure, right now we could create trackers that imitate ZHelper and the Windfish tracker, but in that case, why not just use those trackers? With the logic support, the idea is you could set the entrances for specific connector caves, and the logic will update automatically and tell you what's available. At least I think that's Emo's goal.
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EmoSaru 2018-10-23 10:24
That is my goal, yes. Entrance support in EmoTracker is fully logic bridging, which is part of why it's such a large undertaking.
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MikeTrethewey | Axiom Verge 2018-10-23 11:09
But it’s going to be awesome.
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Natalie 2018-10-23 11:14
Entrance rando takes a special kind of insanity.
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Cheezinator 2018-10-23 16:07
I noticed Brinstar Gauntlet was yellow on my tracker even with Space Jump and 10+ power bombs. it didn't go green unless I selected Speed Booster. is there a reason for that?
16:08
(normal mode, also have morph ball of course)
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Natalie 2018-10-23 16:21
Logic constraints, of course. Ask for details on the logic there in the appropriate Discord, whether it's Super Metroid speedrunning (they have a rando channel) or the SMALttP crossover Discord
16:21
There are a few differences between the teo "normal"s
16:21
s/teo/two
16:22
I don't actually recall the SMZ3 logic on that location and can't check on mobile.
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jcaraker 2018-10-23 16:23
I think you can edit your comments in Discord evraeeH At least on the PC client. Edit: ayup! (edited)
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Natalie 2018-10-23 16:23
I'm literally one-hand typing on mobile right now
16:23
Not the easiest.
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jcaraker 2018-10-23 16:23
playing on hardmode then!
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Deleted User 2018-10-24 19:39
Ok, I updated to the latest version and lost all my settings. Is there any way to recover them? I've tried editing the layout JSON files, but nothing is changing.
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Sal the Dragon 2018-10-24 19:40
#general-support is a thing :P
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JRJathome 2018-10-24 19:40
You updated the program? Or the LttP pack?
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Ninban 2018-10-24 19:41
He updated the program
19:41
Emo's packs have probably changed places tho since you likely updated the LttP pack as well
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JRJathome 2018-10-24 19:44
Yeah. Emo changed the folder locations for the files in the current version of her pack.
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gonutz89 2018-10-28 16:42
question in the ALttP part of the tracker is it possible ot rearange the items?
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LostThePirate 2018-10-28 16:55
Yes, you can write overrides to rearrange things. #customization-support
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gonutz89 2018-10-28 16:57
thanks sorry didnt think about putting this question in that channel
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Nemesis 2018-10-29 11:07
hellow is their a emo tracker for inverted keysanity?
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Ninban 2018-10-29 11:09
Not yet
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Nemesis 2018-10-29 11:09
woo fun times, ill run 2 emo tracker at the same time somehow make it work ^_^ thx
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EmoSaru 2018-10-29 11:11
Soon(tm)
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FlamingoPepp 2018-10-29 14:34
https://giphy.com/gifs/jigglypuff-tV0HkQju9zHR6 read #faq ! (xd just a joke)
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Xemmas 2018-10-29 15:41
Hello, I dont know if this is the correct place but this is my question, I see that the ability to save/load is added to the trackers, is this exclusive to the specific pack that I am using (OOT Randomizer pack) or is that Im not smart enough to figure out how it is done?
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deserteagle417 2018-10-29 15:44
It should be for the whole application, not just specific packs. Per the release notes: "You can find the open/save/save as commands bound to the usual keyboard shortcuts, or at Gear Menu > Application > File."
15:44
I don't use saves, so that's about as far as I can help, unfortunately maxyyDerp
15:45
Full release notes for reference: https://emotracker.net/blog/2018/09/13/emotracker_2_1_release_notes/
EmoTracker v2.1 Release Notes
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Xemmas 2018-10-29 15:45
You are correct, I seem to have missed the File part, thank you!
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deserteagle417 2018-10-29 15:45
np becksk7
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Alasador 2018-10-29 15:48
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bawkHyper 1
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JRJathome 2018-10-29 15:50
#off-topic
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Miles 2018-11-03 00:06
Hey, i just downloaded EmoTracker but having trouble to get this working. Is there anywhere a guide/tutorial/readme or whatever what explains how to set this up ?^^
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Tekky 2018-11-03 00:07
#faq
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Miles 2018-11-03 00:09
yea but havent reayll find anything for startup the things what i saw in faq was mainly if i have issues or something. Or did i just oversaw it ?
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Tekky 2018-11-03 00:11
I suppose I can't really find anything either, I'll have to bug EmoSaru about maybe adding a basic how-to somewhere/locating it in a more obvious spot
00:12
On the window, there should be a little download icon at the top right
00:12
Click that
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Miles 2018-11-03 00:12
install packages yea. so far im too :p
00:12
now im knida stuck
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Tekky 2018-11-03 00:13
What are you having issues with then?
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LostThePirate 2018-11-03 00:14
Should probably shift this to #general-support to keep things tidy
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Tekky 2018-11-03 00:14
Yeah, sorry
00:14
Thanks Lost
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Miles 2018-11-03 00:14
okay
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FerreTrip 2018-11-12 16:37
Also, what's the Metroid + Zelda thing?
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DaftPo 2018-11-12 23:36
probably this, I reckon: https://alttsm.speedga.me/
Super Metroid and A Link to the Past Combo Randomizer
Super Metroid and A Link to the Past Combo Randomizer
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JRJathome 2018-11-12 23:58
There's also a Zelda 1/Metroid crossover. https://discord.gg/kCGzPYp
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FerreTrip 2018-11-13 15:36
I haven't played the original Metroid or Zelda the whole way through, and only beat the SNES ones once each ;w;
15:36
What's it mean when text on a check in the tracker is yellow?
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JRJathome 2018-11-13 15:40
Still using Hamsda's tracker? Yellow generally means you can get the item using minor glitches, but it's not currently in logic.
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FerreTrip 2018-11-13 15:40
Ah.
15:40
Yeah, went back to it when the other tracker I found didn't have shopaholic.
15:40
er
15:40
shopsanity.
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Hamsda 2018-11-13 15:44
shopaholic, I like it 😄
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LostThePirate 2018-11-13 16:58
I'm gonna have to name a Daily "Shopaholic" now...
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Murnco 2018-11-17 16:57
YouTuber PeanutButterGamer spotted using EmoTracker for their WW Rando let's play!
Image attachment
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Natalie 2018-11-17 17:36
And for our last story tonight, yes, the sun will rise again! Details in the morning.
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-17 17:37
is there a legend for some of these emo tracker items?
17:37
some of the right clicks or images are things I don't understand, and the tracker isn't going to provide me with the information I need if it's not here
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Natalie 2018-11-17 17:47
looks like all of these things except the completely pointless GO MODE button are pretty self-explanatory
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-17 17:47
I also didn't know what the right clicks for the crystals were
17:48
left click will fill in the dungeon's pendant/crystal, but the right click had 3 or 4 different options
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Natalie 2018-11-17 17:57
did you not actually check the map
17:57
map shows you which pendants and crystals are where
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-17 18:04
yeah I saw that they were scrambled
18:05
I just wasn't sure if that meant I was supposed to use the right clicks for dungeons, or just click on the pendant i ACTUALLY found
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Natalie 2018-11-17 18:08
right click to cycle through the possible choices for "which one is it"
18:08
and left click to indicate whether you have it
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-17 18:09
i see
18:09
so there's a diamond, a diamond plus a dot, and then 2 pendants
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Natalie 2018-11-17 18:09
crystal
18:09
red crystal (you need both red crystals to be able to buy the big bomb)
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-17 18:09
does that mean that the crystal plus the dot is actually the blue pendant
18:09
ah
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Natalie 2018-11-17 18:10
green pendant (sahasafrass gives you something for this)
18:10
and not-green pendant
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-17 18:10
ok
18:10
that's the information I was missing
18:10
the red crystals iirc are just the late game dungeon ones right
18:10
misery mire and turtle rock
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Natalie 2018-11-17 18:10
normally those are crystals 5 and 6
18:11
but they could well be scattered anywhere
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-17 18:11
ok
18:11
so wherever 5 and 6 ended up going, those I should notate as red crystals then
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Natalie 2018-11-17 18:11
yes; they should also appear red in-game
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Folkfool 2018-11-17 18:12
can any of these trackers be automated???
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Natalie 2018-11-17 18:12
It's been asked and answered time and again: autotrackers are no-nos in race environments, so they don't get made.
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Folkfool 2018-11-17 18:13
Im new to this so id figure i ask. My apologies
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-17 18:13
that's to encourage learning dynamic routes yourself right?
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Natalie 2018-11-17 18:14
it's actually more along the lines of unfair advantages
18:14
mostly on the grounds of emulator versus real hardware players
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-17 18:15
makes sense
18:15
so if someone wants to use one in the emulator that have to actually take the time to toggle it themselves
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Natalie 2018-11-17 18:15
having to manually track/use the assistance of a trusted friend to track
18:16
puts emulator users and console users on an even playing field
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-17 18:16
cool
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Folkfool 2018-11-17 18:16
@<-/ ben yes. i use an emulator and i have to toggle it with the mouse.
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-11-17 18:16
that kind of makes it seem like rally racing then
18:16
where your buddy has the notes andd keeps your macro game going smooth while you're running
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Natalie 2018-11-17 18:16
and yes, you can set your emulator to not pause when it loses focus (when you click on another window)
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Folkfool 2018-11-17 18:17
Now that is what i need to find out on my emulator
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SidimundIsshu 2018-11-19 13:27
alo!
13:27
I am new to the randomizer world
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Natalie 2018-11-19 13:30
We can fix that, but you'll need to provide your own snacks. (edited)
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SidimundIsshu 2018-11-19 13:38
Lol
13:38
I has Cheezeburger
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FerreTrip 2018-11-20 16:20
Alright, question--is it the whole tracker that forgets Zora's Fountain exists, or just one of the thingies?
16:21
Hamsda's, I mean.
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Natalie 2018-11-20 16:28
@FerreTrip Toggle a Bottle to Ruto's Letter to enable access to Zora's Fountain.
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FerreTrip 2018-11-20 16:28
Ahhhhh.
16:28
Speaking of, still haven't found that in my seed.
16:29
Anyone ever mention this is kinda like gambling? XD;
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NoDinero 2018-11-20 21:21
sorry if this is a repeated question, but how do I set the tracker for keysanity?
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LostThePirate 2018-11-20 21:23
Gear - Installed Packages - the package you want - Keysanity
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NoDinero 2018-11-20 21:24
thanks, I found it ❤
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LostThePirate 2018-11-20 21:24
Np
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ChestWellPiped 2018-11-21 02:09
ok so, im playing alttpr inverted for the lolz and i got to the point where i handed agahnim his ass. But since then, everytime i die (because im not that great) i can only respawn on hyrule castle in the light world. Is this normal?? i don't have the flute yet so its kinda long to go back to death mt every time xD.
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JRJathome 2018-11-21 02:12
This is more suited for the Zelda 3 Randomizer discord, but to answer your question, it's normal. If you have the mirror and Aga 1 is killed, you'll start on the castle when you save and quit in the light world.
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ChestWellPiped 2018-11-21 02:12
Ohh okok
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ShinyEntei 2018-11-21 17:17
Dose anyone have pokemon go or let's go with Scyther
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EmoSaru 2018-11-21 17:21
#off-topic for this type of stuff, please
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Deleted User 2018-11-23 14:04
how i get traker
14:05
....
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EmoSaru 2018-11-23 14:06
#faq - https://emotracker.net
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Deleted User 2018-11-23 14:06
tkx
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Natalie 2018-11-23 15:39
That's a lot of unprintable characters.
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Deleted User 2018-11-23 15:40
?
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Natalie 2018-11-23 15:41
Your name is quite literally fifteen blank, zero-width, or otherwise unprintable Unicode characters.
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Scantor 2018-11-23 15:42
My phone hated it too
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Gimmickless 2018-11-23 15:44
But can it Triforce?
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Sponge Guy 2018-11-24 23:22
what a god
23:22
so humble
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EmoSaru 2018-11-26 16:27
@Deleted User Please stop posting nonsense. I have zero interest in removing somebody from this Discord - please don't make me.
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GillyMoMo 2018-11-26 16:31
I don't think that was directed at you, but to everyone here in general. Hence why the off-topic section exists. This is intended for general questions about trackers and what not, bugs even.
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rand(0) 2018-11-26 16:32
it was definitely directed at him, he just deleted his messages
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GillyMoMo 2018-11-26 16:32
Oh I was going off what was stated above there too.
16:32
None the less what I said is correct is it not?
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Natalie 2018-11-26 16:32
Wasn't him deleting it, mine went poof too
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rand(0) 2018-11-26 16:33
oh, suppose it was emo then
16:33
well no point in dragging this out any further then
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Natalie 2018-11-26 16:33
Point is, it doesn't belong here, talking about doing raids doesn't belong anywhere
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GillyMoMo 2018-11-26 16:33
Agreed.
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Natalie 2018-11-26 16:33
et cetera
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GillyMoMo 2018-11-26 16:34
That being said as a runner who isn't well known, I love that tracker I was looking to try some other trackers any suggestions?
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rand(0) 2018-11-26 16:34
depends on the game you run
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GillyMoMo 2018-11-26 16:34
LTTP
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fylion 2018-11-26 16:35
#resources in the alttpr discord That said, I've used a bunch and emotracker is avenues in front of the others.
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GillyMoMo 2018-11-26 16:36
Oh very much so
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rand(0) 2018-11-26 16:36
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s8-pLnWt5KTis60GUFHz5hxmWy_evbe3_YrpjAY5uh4/edit#gid=1055183448
16:36
for all your tracker needs
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Natalie 2018-11-26 16:36
emotracker is definitely the top choice, but not everyone runs on Windows
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GillyMoMo 2018-11-26 16:36
True
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rand(0) 2018-11-26 16:36
i like crossproduct's tracker quite a bit for normal lttpr
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Natalie 2018-11-26 16:36
ideally we'd be multiplatform, but most people ought to know how to run a VM >_>
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GillyMoMo 2018-11-26 16:37
I use Windows and Linux
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Ninban 2018-11-26 16:37
crossproduct's is the one I used before EmoTracker, it's excellent
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GillyMoMo 2018-11-26 16:37
I should learn to dev lol
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rand(0) 2018-11-26 16:38
wolfman's version is quite a bit more in-depth and is based on crossproduct's tracker (edited)
16:38
totally a link here
 (edited)
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JRJathome 2018-11-26 16:39
Hey, guys. Emo's said before she doesn't want links to other trackers in this server. Thanks.
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rand(0) 2018-11-26 16:39
fair enough
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EmoSaru 2018-11-26 16:46
FYI, it was directed at one individual with an unprintable name, not a general tag. And yes, I would rather not have discussion of other trackers here. 1) It's not really appropriate - there are game-specific boards where it makes more sense. 2) It makes it harder for me to find legitimate issues when people are potentially describing unrelated tracker issues.
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Cina 2018-11-26 16:48
Can i get pack developer access?
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EmoSaru 2018-11-26 16:48
DM me and let me know what you're doing and where you're at with it.
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rand(0) 2018-11-26 16:49
welp
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EmoSaru 2018-11-26 16:50
Problem solved.
16:50
Carry on.
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Natalie 2018-11-26 16:50
This is why step one is to strip unicode characters.
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EmoSaru 2018-11-26 16:50
Please nobody ever make me do that again, because despite being particular about a few things that might seem strict, I DO try to keep things neutral to positive.
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rand(0) 2018-11-26 16:51
well he was probably 11 years old given how he acted
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Ninban 2018-11-26 16:51
Gave me a good laugh, but better to be rid of them
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Natalie 2018-11-26 16:51
Yes, well, see, someone has to be the parent.
16:51
His aren't doing the job.
16:51
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Rudy 2018-11-26 16:52
what happen?
16:52
sounded like a missed a good laugh -_-
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Natalie 2018-11-26 16:53
Entitled children happened. Nothing special. Nothing notable. 🤷
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JRJathome 2018-11-26 16:53
Never mind. Just someone trying to be trolly.
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Ninban 2018-11-26 16:53
Not worth bringing back the subject, let's carry on
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EmoSaru 2018-11-26 16:53
Let's move on.
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Rudy 2018-11-26 16:54
you guys no fun , but fine
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EmoSaru 2018-11-26 16:56
I'm not saying you're the person I just banned, but if the person who I just banned DID happen to join under a different name, I would strongly advise them not to test me. (edited)
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Rudy 2018-11-26 16:56
I can ensure you that wasnt me
16:58
or either do I know that person , all I know is there was alot of pop pop noise and when i came in it seem to be take care of , Also sometime thos trolly people are a good laugh nonetheless
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fylion 2018-11-26 16:58
Let's move on.
☝ 3
16:58
I like EmoTracker
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Rudy 2018-11-26 16:59
I havent talk much into alttp channel at all , so this is maybe why you don't know me , but I know for a fact that I have this created account for quite some time now
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fylion 2018-11-26 16:59
I should actually put together that Retro Mode pack that I made for myself, in a format that other people might use it. (edited)
16:59
I was able to do that really quickly, because EmoTracker is fast and easy to use.
16:59
I like EmoTracker!
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Ninban 2018-11-26 16:59
I like EmoTracker. Out of 3 smz3 seeds I've done, they've all been full clears of both games. I know that, thx to EmoTracker
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EmoSaru 2018-11-26 17:00
deserteagle built the inverted keysanity stuff for me. If you build it as a sensible mod to my pack @fylion, I would consider adding it to mine.
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fylion 2018-11-26 17:00
I haven't looked at that pack - but it doesn't seem like it would have a lot in common with Retro.
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EmoSaru 2018-11-26 17:00
With variants, anything can be overridden in any given variant. (edited)
17:00
But it can share all the e.g. image assets, etc.
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fylion 2018-11-26 17:01
Oh yeah
17:01
🤔
17:01
we'll see what happens
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EmoSaru 2018-11-26 17:01
Indeed!
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JRJathome 2018-11-26 17:07
I'm curious to see Fylion's retro mode pack. I made one a while ago but never released it.
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WillardJBradley 2018-11-26 17:35
emotracker is a pretty cool guy
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JRJathome 2018-11-26 17:38
I see Emotracker lurk in your chat often. Doesn't say much despite getting a sub gift. 👀 (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-11-26 17:47
I have it on good authority that EmoTracker appreciates all sub gifts, insofar as a robot can appreciate anything.
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ShivaHaze 2018-11-29 00:28
where can i download emo tracker? 😄
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Nochibato 2018-11-29 00:28
top post of the welcome tab has a link to it
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JRJathome 2018-11-29 00:28
There's links in #welcome and #faq
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Solski 2018-11-29 19:16
Ur a faq
19:16
Just the right amount of danger there
19:17
wednesdaysarebad
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JRJathome 2018-11-29 19:18
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386962041249988627/501894844982231041/2k9pwh.png
Embedded image
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Sal the Dragon 2018-11-29 19:20
😂
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Kelik 2018-11-30 03:33
is anyone currently online? i have some beginner questions for using this tracker with the official pack
03:34
nvm. i scrolled up in the faq and found the info im looking for. disregard, im new to discord too
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Kelik 2018-11-30 04:33
what is the green GO button in the item display?
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Smashface 2018-11-30 04:36
It's for "Go mode" what go mode is when you have all the items in the game that you need to finish the rest of the dungeons you haven't done / getting to Ganon. It's the only thing in the EmoTracker that isnt an ALttP item. Dont need to worry about using it, but its there for when you stream etc, just to show your viewers that youre in go mode
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LostThePirate 2018-11-30 04:36
"Go Mode" - a visual way to alert your viewers you have everything you need to beat a seed. (edited)
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Kelik 2018-11-30 04:37
ah thank you guys very much. i got confused because it appears as an item for the blue rooms lol
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Smashface 2018-11-30 04:38
it shouldnt. not in the latest version anyway
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Kelik 2018-11-30 04:38
i just realized its unclickable
04:38
in the blue rooms
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Kelik 2018-11-30 23:23
hey, i have the palace of darkness showing as green with only 4 keys and the big key. i thought randomizer logic didnt account for bomb jumps?
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Nyarlathotep 2018-12-01 02:11
I believe you actually don't need all keys to complete PoD
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ozipone 2018-12-01 02:51
Logically you do. I also took a look at it and PoD gives 'green' even with one small key and big key if you have everything else.
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Smashface 2018-12-01 04:13
It goes by what items you have. So if you have moon pearl, power glove, hammer, lamp and bow, itl be green. Otherwise itl be orange or yellow depending on what youre missing out of those items
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EmoSaru 2018-12-01 09:27
I’m assuming we’re talking about keysanity here. Let me take a look.
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Kelik 2018-12-01 09:27
ye
09:28
oh yes, smashface is correct, it only tracks wether i have keys, not if i have enought. ugh
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Smashface 2018-12-01 09:30
I wasnt on about keysanity though lol. I was assuming you were talking about standard/open mode. It might be different if its on the keysanity tracker
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EmoSaru 2018-12-01 09:30
That is not intentional
09:30
I will get this fixed
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Kelik 2018-12-01 09:31
you're awesome @EmoSaru
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EmoSaru 2018-12-01 09:46
Should be fixed now if you update via the package manager.
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Kelik 2018-12-01 09:46
cool!
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Yogurt 2018-12-01 12:49
Hey all, any chance of a linux version?
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JRJathome 2018-12-01 12:51
From #faq:
Does/will the tracker run on MacOS or Linux? No, and I have no plans/interest in making it so. It is a heavily WPF-based application, and will be Windows-only unless a suitable open source Mono implementation of WPF becomes available.
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Yogurt 2018-12-01 12:52
oh....
12:52
😦
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Natalie 2018-12-01 13:23
Linux users that don't know how to run VMs are weird.
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Onii-Chan 2018-12-01 13:52
what do i do now
Image attachment
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Ninban 2018-12-01 13:53
Get small key
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JRJathome 2018-12-01 13:53
1. That says big key chest. Not big chest. 2. That's a more suitable question for the randomizer discord.
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EmoSaru 2018-12-01 18:24
@Deleted User One more try
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Deleted User 2018-12-01 18:25
what im sorry one of my friends accessed my teamviewer and did all that
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EmoSaru 2018-12-01 18:25
Uh huh
18:25
Well, I recommend making sure they don't do it again
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Deleted User 2018-12-01 18:25
I will
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Natalie 2018-12-01 18:26
🤔
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Kelik 2018-12-02 04:57
i missed the drama what happened?
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Ninban 2018-12-02 06:01
Probably not worth it
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statikc 2018-12-03 12:31
Can anyone tell me what the "go" icon in the tracker is? I just started this randomizer yesterday so I'm pretty green on what everything is.
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Natalie 2018-12-03 12:32
It's functionally useless
12:33
But it can be used to indicate to your viewers if you're a streamer of any kind that you're comfortably in go mode and won't be updating the tracker any more, focusing entirely on completing the game's objective
12:34
"go mode" being the state in which you have every item required to complete the bare minimum of what you have to do to see the end credits (edited)
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statikc 2018-12-03 12:34
Ahh I gotcha
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Natalie 2018-12-03 12:34
You can safely ignore it if you're just using it for personal reasons. It's there for the viewers.
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statikc 2018-12-03 12:35
Another question, are there any automatic splittimers for it?
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Natalie 2018-12-03 12:37
I vaguely recall LiveSplit featuring autosplitter functions for normal unmodded games, but I have no idea how that functions having never used it and there is additionally no way to really use it for randomizer environments.
12:37
I play SMALttP crossover, so I know the LttP half of it tracks when you get certain items (sword, flute, mirror, boots)
12:38
which is an interesting statistic
12:38
but I don't think anyone anywhere has yet created an autosplitter for any randomizer to indicate when you've received arbitrary items.
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statikc 2018-12-03 12:39
Yeah I couldn't find any on livesplit for the randomizer. I was just looking for a completion timer basically without having to start/stop/reset manually
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Natalie 2018-12-03 12:39
Some randos provide for a final completion time during the credits
12:40
which is kind of like what you're after but doesn't have a live time display
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statikc 2018-12-03 12:42
Yeah
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Natalie 2018-12-03 12:43
I can see a certain interest in splits for certain objectives, as a sort of analytical reference for how terrible the seed is
12:44
..though on the other side of that, that's effectively equivalent to auto-tracking with timers attached, so it may never happen.
12:45
Though any advantages gained by autotracking can be nullified by not attaching a map tracker, and an autosplitter for objectives wouldn't be attached to a map anyway.
12:46
It sounds like a weird gray area. Neat for individual exhibitionists, though.
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Ninban 2018-12-03 12:47
I wonder how easy it would be to make the alttp autosplitter and make it work with rando
12:47
Just for the ending split as you go in Triforce room
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Natalie 2018-12-03 12:48
It may or may not have different memory addresses to watch for...
12:48
However
12:49
I could see great enjoyment in splitting on Triforce Hunt milestones
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Ninban 2018-12-03 12:52
Yeah, it all depends on whether the ROM obfuscation kills the possibility or not
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Natalie 2018-12-03 12:53
I suppose what-could-be on timers for randos is #off-topic though
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EmoSaru 2018-12-03 13:15
The important parts of LTTP WRAM and SRAM are consistent between the vanilla game and the randomizer. It hasn’t been done because it’s not really worth it.
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statikc 2018-12-03 15:05
do the chest trackers include the map and compass? I seem to find more chests than what the tracker says.
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Ninban 2018-12-03 15:06
No
15:06
They also don't include small keys or big keys
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statikc 2018-12-03 15:06
what about the big chest?
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Ninban 2018-12-03 15:07
It's nothing special, just need the big key to open it
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Natalie 2018-12-03 15:07
The chest counter is exclusively for unique items
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statikc 2018-12-03 15:07
is the big chest a unique item ?
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Natalie 2018-12-03 15:07
That is to say, the total number of items which can be found in that dungeon which are neither keys, maps, compasses
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statikc 2018-12-03 15:07
or its random still..
15:07
nvm
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Natalie 2018-12-03 15:07
Big chest can contain a key
15:07
Just like any other chest
15:08
Can also contain map or compass
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statikc 2018-12-03 15:08
ok thanks, so only check off chests if its NOT a key, map or compas. correct?
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Natalie 2018-12-03 15:08
Big chest is simply the logical union of [chest] && [big key door] (edited)
15:08
check off a chest if it contains an item that is not Small Key, Big Key, Map, or Compass
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statikc 2018-12-03 15:09
thanks
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Natalie 2018-12-03 15:09
all items not matching that description are from the global item pool and are the "unique" items for that dungeon
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statikc 2018-12-03 15:09
8 items left on my first completion run
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Deagon00 2018-12-03 21:32
so what do the blue dots on the map tracker mean when i pick up stone of agony
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JRJathome 2018-12-03 21:40
This has been answered a couple of times. The blue dots mean that you can see what item is at that location, but you can't get it yet. In the case of OoT, the Stone lets you get hints from the gossip stones. Those blue locations are what you might get hints for. So as you read the hints, you can either mark off the location or mark what item it has so you remember to get it later.
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Natalie 2018-12-03 22:05
Specifically, the blue locations on the map correspond to very specific item checks, for which the corresponding hints in-game usually have very detailed flavor text. Well, except for things like Biggoron, the Big Poes, skulltula rewards, and fishing.
22:05
It won't be a generic flavor text like "They say that an ancient tree hoards danger darts"
22:05
it'll be pretty precise in what the hint points to.
22:06
Not all of those locations will be hinted in any one seed. The available locations on the map are the pool of specific-hint locations, and the available specific hints in-game are a subset of that.
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TidusZecht 2018-12-04 08:39
which channel should i post logic bugs in? I've had 2 different problems yesterday and today with regards to locations it said i could get to in inverted but actually couldn't
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JRJathome 2018-12-04 08:43
#pack-support. Looks like someone else also submitted some bugs.
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fylion 2018-12-04 08:43
They may be the same bugs from the same discussion. (edited)
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TidusZecht 2018-12-04 08:48
yeah, senen was going over it with me because i didn't know where to talk about it
08:48
so i was going over it in the rando discord
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Gilgatex 2018-12-04 12:43
To SMZ3 tracker users, I'm doing a softlock update to my tracker. In other words, items that should be blue rather than red because you can check them by softlocking yourself. I'd like input on which items should fall under this category. So far I have: - Gauntlet (lack of bombs to get back) - Draygon E-tank (lack of way to jump out) - Plasma Beam (lack of plasma or lack of way to jump out) I'm looking solely for situations where it can be impossible to get the item, but you can still check it. I'm not looking for sequence breaks. Any others?
12:44
Maybe X-ray with lack of energy?
12:45
for the bomb jump route
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Ninban 2018-12-04 12:50
Can you reach Draygon without gravity? Because with it you can still gravity jump to get out
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Natalie 2018-12-04 12:54
"lack of way to jump out"
12:54
this means no gravity suit (disables all other jump assists as a reasonable escape route) and no xray (climb) (edited)
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Ninban 2018-12-04 12:56
Yeah Natalie, guess why I asked the first question 🤔
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Natalie 2018-12-04 12:59
Considering xray climb is definitely described as a way to escape Draygon, yes you can reach Draygon suitless.
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Ninban 2018-12-04 13:00
Oh that's an answer, thanks
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Gilgatex 2018-12-04 13:15
Looks like we're doing this conversation over in the SMZ3 server, so thanks 😃
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Natalie 2018-12-04 15:39
Mildly curious what the "swordless" icon looks like. Too lazy to actually check.
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Ninban 2018-12-04 15:40
Hi Emo, you're hot. Thank you
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EmoSaru 2018-12-04 15:40
👍
15:41
And it looks like this...
Image attachment
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romibi 2018-12-04 16:59
hi everyone … what do you guys think? https://i.gyazo.com/89bbf767545f897e4f0b5297df8605d7.jpg
Embedded image
17:02
(Draft of Twilight Princess Map Tracker intended for 100% runs)
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Natalie 2018-12-04 17:03
A neat thing in itself, but due to the complete lack of a randomizer (and an enormous difficulty in preparing the very linear game for randomization)...
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JRJathome 2018-12-04 17:04
(don't think there are randomizers) Not in the sense of item randomization, but there is a beta quest rom of Twilight Princess HD with randomized loading zones. Unfortunately, it might be difficult to track that until entrance shuffle support is added. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql7qzX1mPIY
dragonbane
Twilight Princess HD - Beta Quest and Bingo RELEASED
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Natalie 2018-12-04 17:04
Having it already in the event someone's crazy enough to make a rando for it could be helpful, too. You might ask about in speedrun communities to find out what items can be accessed in weird ways for futureproofing purposes.
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JRJathome 2018-12-04 17:05
I also assume the beta quest requires glitches and has no logic.
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Natalie 2018-12-04 17:05
And yes, entrance rando support is coming, so preparing in advance to learn about all the breaks and skips and glitches will be helpful.
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romibi 2018-12-04 17:10
well … yea … i don't think i'll personally make it that advanced … i primarily wanted to be able to check off collected heartpieces, ghosts and insects … so that i don't have to read through pages of walkthroughs/guides when live to finish my casual 100% TP stream i'll probably publish my pack on github once its good enough for me so that others can fork it
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Natalie 2018-12-04 17:14
Starting from something is definitely better than starting from nothing.
17:15
Keep an eye on the communities, throw the project at the beta quest guys maybe. They'll have use for it.
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-12-04 20:26
@Gilgatex from personal experience, spore spawn supers lol
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Gilgatex 2018-12-05 07:17
@Kage Benshin no Jutsu lol that's an accidental one, I'm not counting those because you CAN get out if you planned ahead
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Kage Benshin no Jutsu 2018-12-05 07:40
@Gilgatex yeah I just wasn’t sure, it’s a soft lock if you don’t have super missiles so it seemed like it would’ve been categorized similarly to gauntlet
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Lord Nightmare 2018-12-05 20:09
@EmoSaru Re: FAQ entry #2, which reads: Does/will the tracker run on MacOS or Linux? No, and I have no plans/interest in making it so. It is a heavily WPF-based application, and will be Windows-only unless a suitable open source Mono implementation of WPF becomes available.
20:09
https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2018/12/04/announcing-open-source-of-wpf-windows-forms-and-winui-at-microsoft-connect-2018/
Announcing Open Source of WPF, Windows Forms, and WinUI at Microso...
At Build 2018, I outlined our approach to helping you be more productive when developing apps, including the introduction of .NET Core 3.0. We also started decoupling many parts of the Windows development platform, so you can adopt technologies incrementally. Today at Microso...
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EmoSaru 2018-12-05 20:13
So, this is great, but this is far from a cross-platform WPF solution.
20:13
It's part of their existing roadmap for .NET Core, which is really what that FAQ entry should refer to at this point.
20:13
Image attachment
20:14
This is definitely a good step towards what I need, but it's not yet what I need.
20:15
TBH, I am far more excited about some of the embedding options being added to .NET Core, as well as the ability to host UWP controls in WPF apps.
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Nareth Erakian 2018-12-06 10:12
So, I used Hamsda's layout Items Only (Keysanity) and I had the window less wide with more rows. But now it doesn't work. I don't know much about how these are programmed, but I could at least swear that it was like that before today's update. >_> So, I guess, if it wasn't really intended, I think this works like a suggestion of making it at least resizable by a bit on both axes, just for convenience.
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Hamsda 2018-12-06 10:13
oh I mean I had 2 different layouts that changed depending if your window was wider or taller
10:13
but that changed like weeks ago
10:13
also #pack-support
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blasteg 2018-12-08 06:01
Where are the installed packs placed? Want to look into the pack source
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Ninban 2018-12-08 06:01
Documents/Emotracker
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blasteg 2018-12-08 06:03
There's talk in La-mulana discord about making a pack for the rando, so want to give it a look about what would need to be done for that
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Ninban 2018-12-08 06:04
I thought La-Mulana mainly used the integrated automatic tracker, but that's great!
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blasteg 2018-12-08 06:07
well, that one didn't have map so
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blasteg 2018-12-08 15:03
What's the difference between layouts/broadcast.json and layouts/tracker.json?
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-08 15:03
i would assume that layouts/broadcast.json is for broadcast view
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EmoSaru 2018-12-08 15:44
the name of the file is irrelevant in the newest pack format (which mine uses), what matters is the individual layout key names
15:44
that said, sourlyme is correct, and they are split like that so that users have an easier time of e.g. just overriding the broadcast view in order to customize the look of their stream, without impacting the main tracker
15:45
Also for any customization discussion, I would ask that we keep it in #customization-support
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 02:35
Any word on when a metroid prime 2 pack will be made/released?
02:35
also ive been recently learning to code in C++, so that got me thinking of asking. what programming languages/knoledge in general would you need to develop a pack for emotracker?
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 02:43
that question is best answered by opening a pack and reading the source files
02:46
most of your time will be spent re-creating the logical expressions anyways which requires no coding knowledge (edited)
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Natalie 2018-12-11 02:48
being able to read the code is helpful though, especially in cases where the rando's logic isn't clearly and thoroughly spelled out for you already in some other document
02:49
as it stands, i'm 95% sure it's JSON all the way down, but you'll figure it out best by opening an existing pack and using it as reference
02:50
Documents\EmoTracker
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blasteg 2018-12-11 02:51
how usually does map tracker for something like entrance shuffle, where you don't know how the world is built work?
02:51
I mean logic for said variances
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 02:52
no entrance rando support yet
02:52
in general the user would have to manually mark what entrances are connected though
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blasteg 2018-12-11 02:53
yeah, how would one write logic for that, I wonder
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 02:54
you check what entrances the user has access to with equipment set x
02:54
all connected exits are thus accessible with said equipment set
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Natalie 2018-12-11 02:56
you'll have to think of the game world not as one unit but as a set of discrete rooms with no relation to each other except that one door can lead to another
02:56
fortunately, you usually don't have to do that job unless you're actually on the team building the rando logic
02:57
all you have to do as a pack builder, once entrance rando support is officially here, is transcribe the logic's definitions for exactly what gets you through any given exit in any given room
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:38
which is just a matter of "this door requires missles, do you have missles y/n?"
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:38
that's just a tiny part of logical expressions if that is what you are referencing here
03:39
you also have to make sure that the user can access the area the door is located in which is the more difficult part
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:39
on the logic side of things it seems its just a long series of if/then statements
03:40
i think if i start a pack, ill do vanilla first so i have a litteral guide to follow for the logic
03:40
i uh...just realized that what i described is exactly how every pack is made
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:40
vanilla what
03:41
or are you speaking in general terms?
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:41
you should worry about what the rando's logic is, as written for the rando
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:42
the basic idea that if you were to follow a walkthrough of a game, it tells you how to get from point a to point b the whole way, modeling a tracker on that can help with finding those logic issues such as for metroids example, "need missiles to open the door, need space jump boots to reach the door"
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:42
well that is all already defined in the source code of the randomizer
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:42
which is what i've been saying this whole time
03:43
you don't need to put out the effort of actually identifying every single way to get through the jump assist check to enter Cathedral
03:44
because unless you've found a brand new way to do it, the guys that wrote the logic by which the randomizer places its items... have already done that
03:44
and all you have to do is use whatever reference material they've provided... whether it's source code or a well-documented dossier on every little aspect of the logic
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:45
well i didnt plan to use any sequence breaks such as ghetto jumps or such, just simply a glitchless/expliotless tracker for items to keep track of where i can get items, for example i was playing metroid prime 2 echoes, and i got softlocked cause the bomb guardian didnt drop the morph ball bomb
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:45
it has a glitchless logic which does exactly that too
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:46
if there is not yet a tracker package at all for MP2 then building one even for only glitchless logic can be a useful starting point
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:46
i may need to open prime 1s information to see what you are talking about
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:46
just be prepared for it to spiral out of control
03:46
because if it's anything like MP1
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:46
and yes there are absolutly none MP2 trackers
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:46
the prime1 and prime2 randomizer are coded very differently fyi
03:46
prime2 is a LOT more complex
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:46
there's an asston of logic options
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:46
yea
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:46
it uses a mysql database that stores all the logic requirements given the large set of requirements for travel
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:47
and not only that you can modify the item lists, aka remove missile expansions for beam ammo expansions
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:47
well removing items has no effect on the actual logic
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:47
same logic tho, item location a gets random item 23 for example
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:47
start with the glitchless logic. set it up as a sort of open-source package. once there's a base and all item locations exist in a neat tracker package
03:47
then it can be expanded upon
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:48
that was my plan
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:48
with logic configurations
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:48
i just dont want to run through MP2 blind essencially cause i dont know the logic breaks that "not having item A causes softlock in location 34" or something of the sorts
03:48
see bomb guardian room for example
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:49
well those softlocks won't be prevented by writing a tracker
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:49
you'll learn a lot about the logic while building a tracker package
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:49
the randomizer is coded with those softlock locations potentially holding the item to get out (edited)
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:49
...soooo it uses troll logic rather than holding the player's hand
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:50
yes, but with a tracker i can eliminate every other possible location first, it doesnt elimnate it, just drastically reduces it
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:50
given the large number of save stations it makes playthroughs more interesting
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:50
..which leads us to thorough overuse of the sequence break color for a very specialized purpose: accessible potential softlock locations
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:50
yea too much yellow in MP1
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:51
you'd have to forego actual logic breaks entirely in that case
03:51
which may end up being a good thing
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:51
especially since im not good at doing litterally any of the sequence break tricks
03:51
not even L-jump
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:51
can a pure l-jump even be a sequence break?
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:52
the idea for this being, someone with no experience with glitches/exploits should be able to follow the tracker to an item with the loadout they have at the time, and if it soft locks they know not to go there till later
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:52
if the package is written with the intent that "sequence break" coloration is specifically only for locations for which if you don't find the item you need to escape the item, you're locked in and have to reload
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:52
in some cases yes
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:53
then you have a cleaner map interface, clear indications of what you can safely do without softlocking
03:53
et cetera
03:53
but you'll definitely need to learn which areas you can be expected to enter in the hopes of finding the escape item
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:54
i need about a billion more playthroughs of vanilla then huh
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:54
it's like killing draygon in SM with the hopes of finding space jump like in vanilla
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:54
not really. it's in the logic
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:54
kinda dont like vanilla MP2
03:54
the reason is boost guardian
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:55
you should familiarize yourself thoroughly with what logic will expect of you
03:55
read the logic definitions. ask questions. make it your goal to know everything about it.
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:56
so to start i should look at finding MP2 (the game i wanna work on) randomizers source information. then the tracker for MP1 since it will have some similarities to the trackers logic systems that i should expect to have to deal with for MP2
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:56
you don't need source information. it has a data visualizer built-in
03:57
given that all the logic is in a mysql database you won't be able to access and easily read it anyways
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:57
you COULD, but reading raw databases is a pain
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:57
well yeh i would highly recommend against it 😄
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:57
no need for source if the logic is all i need right
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:57
use the built-in tool and you're good to go
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:58
logic is defined at the source level somewhere; it's just in this case it's stored in a sql database
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 03:58
where would i find the build it tool?
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:58
and apparently they have a tool built to make it more human-readable
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 03:58
launch the program. go to the data visualizer tab
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Natalie 2018-12-11 03:58
that is an excellent question for the MP2 rando community
04:00
my areas of expertise are ocarina of time and smz3 crossover. for lenient levels of "expertise". the MP2 rando community will be much more suited to answer specific questions you have about the logic, and you'll want to be absolutely certain you understand the logic when you build the tracker.
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:01
ill do that, for now i think ill just play around with both pieces of information and see what i can figure out on my own, and ask when i dont know
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:01
ideally you'll be at the point, by the time you're done, that you won't actually need the tracker for the logic you built it for
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:01
true (edited)
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:01
it's not REQUIRED (looking at you Gilgatex)
04:02
but it's ideal
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 04:02
what did gilgatex do to warrant that comment 🤔
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:02
and the community will be more than happy to help you out with logic bugs in the tracker as they find them
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:02
the tracker for me is more of a checklist once i know the game well enough, like for Alttp i dont need it for the logic since ik the game so well
04:03
yes im a completionist, which makes scanless runs of Metroid erk me
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:03
gilgatex isn't 100% on every little detail of the SMZ3 crossover
04:03
which is ok
04:03
asking questions is free
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 04:04
all scans shudders
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:04
you get enough people together you'll have the whole picture
04:04
(fuck 100% scan completion. prime 1 players will understand.)
04:05
(fucking monsters that go extinct after you've seen them exactly once)
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:05
(yea...fuck fregate)
04:05
99% cause of a single pirate scan on the fregate at the tutorial level
04:06
luckily from what im told, those 3 scans from the fregate are removed from MP1R so thats good
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:06
..which could very much make for a legitimate value in a tracker package which is specifically for the vanilla game
04:06
as a learning tool for would-be speedrunners
04:08
it may not be the cleanest solution, perhaps, but as it stands an emotracker package could certainly be built to support 100% completion rate for the vanilla game as a learning tool
04:08
some rando packages are actually sufficient by themselves for exactly that purpose already
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:08
for a dev who has never done it before, using vanilla would be a good practice ground since the games logic is very cut and dry
04:09
and already got guides
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:09
your first task is going to be actually mapping it out and ensuring you have every shufflable item location accounted for
04:10
why build logic for a partial location pool 🤔
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:10
true
04:10
gots to know how many of items and where they are first
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:10
(plus if you have a neat map and item grid you have a more presentable wip)
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:11
i was planning to either scan in the maps from the official guide or find better renditions of them online then just make markers for the image object, kinda like push pins on a map
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:11
>markers
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 04:12
http://metroid.retropixel.net/games/mprime2/maps.php
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:12
lol
04:12
litterally the maps i was looking at
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:12
won't be helpful on the final product, but while you're arranging the items on the map itself you could draw some sort of references on a copy of the map image
04:13
just make sure you have a clean final map image to use
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:13
i notice that most of the trackers use room locations then list whats there and their logics, but what about more precise locations?
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:13
(and perhaps avoid visually busy images)
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:15
hmm, i suppose that would mean i would have to use a gridded system which can get busy on screen unless i could hide it later, but idk
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:18
item locations aren't necessarily aligned to a grid; notable exceptions in e.g. 2D metroid games which feature neat gridded in-game maps which are perfect for this use
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:20
so this is gunna be suuuuuuuper useful, so the randomizer for MP2 has a feature that allows you to basically god mode it, allowing you to modify your loadout on the fly and even teleport as you wish
04:22
and for your responce, my meaning is, lets take a rectangular room, there are two items in this room, one in the top left, and on in the bottom right. the idea being that for that room in the trackers ive seen, it shows a single marker, and when you hover over it it shows there are two items in the room. my idea is for that room to have two markers, one in the top left, and one in the bottom right.
04:22
still signifying there are two items in the room, and where in relations to the rooms layout you should see them
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:29
things can be done that way... at considerable cost, sometimes
04:30
load up an Ocarina of Time map-enabled package and press F11, you'll quickly see why there can be value in grouping items in regions
04:30
trust me Kakariko will flat out vanish under a sea of red
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:30
case by case then, metroid isnt that bad about having loads of items in a single room, sept for a few in MP1
04:31
also i couldnt find anything similar to the data visualizer in the MP1R so im looking into the source code for it instead, maybe get a clue
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:32
the worst part is a lot of kakariko has to stay split up like that because they're not all related locations
04:32
no lumping in the house of skulltula with the windmill heart piece y'know
04:33
there's a balance there that had to be struck between usable and overburdened and the result is short groupings of pinnable locations
04:34
MP2 won't be anywhere near as bad I'm sure
04:34
but the point is if you have two item locations for one room and they're incredibly close, that's a consideration for grouping them
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:35
and if your grouping one you mine as well group them all, save space
04:35
makes it cleaner too
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:35
you can also just use one location for every room, can't expect there's more than three items in any one room
04:35
but that has the downside of orange "mixed accessibility" map markers
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:36
which was suppppper prevelent in the MP1 tracker
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Natalie 2018-12-11 04:36
you may be best off using individual locations for individual items
04:36
be prepared to provide subregion maps
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:36
actually...
04:36
that might be an idea
04:36
a way to see how a tracker works, its logic and fix a personal annoyance
04:37
what if i modified the already existing tracker, for myself of course as the work done is the creators, but this way i can see how they did it and emulate it when i make mine
04:42
also do i need a special program to read .json or can i just use wordpad/word progrom
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:51
acutally neet, my C++ compiler can read it and i already like the format it works with for visuals so yay
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 04:57
you should use https://notepad-plus-plus.org/ (edited)
04:57
personal preference ofc
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 04:58
reason i decided to use my compiler is that i can just add all the .json files to a project and look at them all within one tab/app window, instead of several open documents
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 06:37
sooo..after looking at MP1, SMALTTP, and OOT trackers and as much as i could with the randomizers, im starting to see how it works, but im also seeing how the logic of the MP2 randomizer works and ugh...that is such a huge thing, not at all "easy" to take into account the logic choices for the randomizer
06:40
the logics for item locations isnt that big of a deal, but the HUD options make it hard to do since the randomizer gives the user a hell of a lot of modularity for the rom, allowing them to change just about any aspect of the item loadouts. it would make anything but vanilla (default amounts of each item if more than one) impossible to account for
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 06:42
you don't acount for what items are in distribution
06:43
you acount for what tricks and items are required to access a location, thats it
06:43
the randomizer makes sure the seed is completable, the user ticks what items he has
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 06:45
yes but Metroid games have progressive item toggles, left click missles and it adds 5, left click again to make it 10, but that only accounts up to the limit for vanilla, but you could litterally have 300-400 missiles depending on if you reduce powerbomb and etanks, so those options have to be accounted for and an image provided to demonstrate that
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 06:45
no. it doesn't matter how many missiles you have to open a missile door
06:45
and the max needed for a seeker door is 5 afaik
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 06:45
yes
06:46
tho im not talking about logic markers, im talking about HUD trackers at this point
06:46
tracking how many of each item you have
06:47
im aware that even if its only 5 missiles logic can progress for the rooms of "can i enter this room or not" logic (edited)
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 06:48
i fail to see why you would need to track the # of items when it has no impact on logic
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 06:49
i suppose in that sense just removing the marker sayings its been checked is enough, and saying that you at least have access to what is required for an item to function (5 missiles for super/seeker)
06:49
and thus can progress if that item is needed
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 06:49
yes, otherwise it would be equal to tracking the number of bomb upgrades in lttp which has no point
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 06:51
for a framework i suppose thats enough, the rest can come after its at least functional to get from point a to z
06:51
a being start and z being roll credits
06:52
have you looked into the .json files for trackers? cause they all have the same layout so i have a question
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 06:53
i haven't put i can take a glance at it
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 06:53
i can post a small bit here, just what im having trouble understanding
06:54
{ "name": "Wave Beam", "type": "toggle", "loop": true, "img": "images/wave.png", "codes": "wave,wavebeam" },
06:54
this is the Wave Beams logic code
06:54
what is loop used for?
06:54
the rest i completely understand
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 06:54
i'm gonna assume that it cycles through it's different HUD-Element states
06:54
e.g. On/Off when clicked on
06:55
if it doesn't loop it probably stops after going from off to on
06:55
and has to be turned off by right-clicking (?) (edited)
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 06:55
maybe, in which case setting it to false has really no function and is more of a necessary evil in this case
06:56
a piece of code necessary for only the case of logic, but not function, ideally you would never want to turn it off once its on
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rand(0) 2018-12-11 06:57
just checked in the tracker and left-clicking indeed cycles endlessly through on/off states if loop is enabled (edited)
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 06:57
but the rest is pretty self explanitory in some ways. Name dictates logic name, for users eyes. type is the feature, can it be changed, img points to an image file, and codes is calls for logic in the rest of the code
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Hamsda 2018-12-11 06:58
loop is more for progressives
06:59
as it can be tedious to go back several stages
06:59
or its easier to right click an item once to start at the back
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 06:59
tho having more than one string to call for the same object doesnt make much sense to me, unless there is some reason you would want have more than one way to call the same item
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Hamsda 2018-12-11 06:59
it is required for badged toggles though, because the right click gets intercepted for the badge
06:59
espy thats mainly for chathud
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 06:59
ahh
07:00
so for only personal use, one string would be enough, but for streamers and such more than one is better?
07:01
like a shorthand way of calling that item?
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Hamsda 2018-12-11 07:01
ye pretty much
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-11 07:02
if i do make this ill more than likely make it work as a personal use first then expand later. too many variables would confuse me tbh (edited)
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SauceRelic 2018-12-11 08:02
I only used one code for each item in my logic. Usually the first one that appears (edited)
08:03
And yeah the loop is for ease of use, since its just a toggle it's nice to use one type of click on it
08:05
If you're planning on making a map tracker for MP2 good luck
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EmoSaru 2018-12-11 10:38
Items and codes have a one to many relationship. Codes are countable in the logic, so items can provide multiple codes.
10:39
They are in no way a “name”. They’re more like a referenceable non-unique id, though in practice they are often unique, and using a unique code is the way to place things in the layouts. (edited)
10:40
The name field is a human-readable descriptive name.
10:41
Also, doing entrance rando properly involves path planning. Accessibility is determined by reachability from the neutral starting locations, as defined by the current known network of connected entrances.
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SauceRelic 2018-12-11 12:52
If locations were able to be referenced before being defined, then MP2 would be much easier to make a tracker for. You could simply require access to the room before plus the items to get to the door you would enter from
12:53
As it stands now you can't do that, so you'd have to work out the sum of all the required items on all the paths that lead to the item (edited)
12:55
That's super difficult compared to MP1 considering that MP1 is much more linear and that it's already done, you just have to look at Bash's logical expressions (edited)
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EmoSaru 2018-12-11 13:32
There are two parts to this:
13:32
1) Allowing lazily evaluated references
13:32
2) Solving the dependency problem
13:33
Even if I addressed the first issue (more than I already do), without proper dependency solving, you will have issues where the map is not accurate until the NEXT action you do (edited)
13:34
My solution has been to say, for performance and reliability reasons, "you do it, by way of ordering"
13:34
Circular references will ALWAYS be an error
13:34
So, annoying or not, the best solution IMO is one where the tracker does exactly what you told it to do
13:34
And that's what we have right now
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Espy the Espeon 2018-12-12 12:30
yes the idea was to have a map tracker, or at the very least a listed room tracker, same difference really, its a matter of "with X items you can reach Y item in Z room"
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S&S😈SilverWolf 2018-12-15 16:35
Where are the links to use the trackers
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Natalie 2018-12-15 16:45
You should have come here from a website
16:46
if you didn't, someone needs their wrist slapped, because that website just so happens to also have a download link for EmoTracker.
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JRJathome 2018-12-15 16:52
There's a download link in #welcome too
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rand(0) 2018-12-15 17:13
and in #faq
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MelonSpeedruns 2018-12-16 16:42
Hey guys!
16:42
Came in here after hearing about EmoTracker! As a developer, I have a few questions about it.
16:44
First of all, could it be technically be possible to implement other things than what Randomizers normally use? For example, having a player list, which is connected to a socket TCP server. (edited)
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-16 16:47
such a question would probably be better suited in #customization-support 😃
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MelonSpeedruns 2018-12-16 16:48
Gotcha! Thanks! 😄
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Natalie 2018-12-16 16:52
I don't think that question actually makes sense anywhere around here. What part of this request actually makes sense to include in an item tracker?
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MelonSpeedruns 2018-12-16 16:54
I was basically just wondering if the EmoTracker's UI could be used for other stuff than the randomizer.
16:55
So for example, there is an Online Co-op Randomizer for Ocarina of Time, and being able to see the connected players in real time in the UI would be really neat. (edited)
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JRJathome 2018-12-16 16:55
Emo's got some linked features in the works, but nothing released yet.
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Natalie 2018-12-16 16:55
Networking for co-op instances is planned
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MelonSpeedruns 2018-12-16 16:57
I'm not sure if you guys have seen OotOnline. It's a project I'm working with some friends that allows true Online interaction with other players in Ocarina of Time. You can see the other Links, you can hit them with your sword, the world objects are synced in real time, etc...
16:57
And well, I was personally thinking of using Emo's UI for it, since it looks good and can be paired with the randomizer in case people want to do that.
❤ 1
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Dad-chan 2018-12-16 16:57
Hello nerds
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Natalie 2018-12-16 16:59
If OoT Online works anything like SM64 Online does, I imagine the basic co-op functions will be just as useful there so you can track what things have been done
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MelonSpeedruns 2018-12-16 16:59
We'd also like players to be able to change the servers setting using Emo (a couple checkboxes will work.), which is I think what the co-op functions are going to allow us to do. (edited)
17:00
so if a checkbox is checked, send a packet to the server
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Natalie 2018-12-16 17:01
That is most likely outside of the basic scope of EmoTracker, but anything could happen depending on how lua scripting is implemented and whether the OoT Online program can take input from other programs.
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MelonSpeedruns 2018-12-16 17:02
well then would it be easier to make Emo THE online program?
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Natalie 2018-12-16 17:02
It would have to be a coordinated effort between the pack developer and the OoT Online developer, and it would only work if EmoTracker's lua scripting were allowed to have that kind of control outside of its own boundaries.
17:03
The focus of EmoTracker is only to provide a sort of API for tracker packages
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MelonSpeedruns 2018-12-16 17:03
yeah, that's what I thought :\
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Natalie 2018-12-16 17:09
It all depends on what the Lua scripting will allow. Keep an eye on it; the only one who knows what it's going to be before it gets there is EmoSaru.
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MelonSpeedruns 2018-12-16 17:09
gotcha 😉
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Natalie 2018-12-16 17:10
Tracker packages aren't limited strictly to randomizers, though; you can build them with the intent of being learning tools for completionist speedrunners
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MelonSpeedruns 2018-12-16 17:10
yeah, it's really customizable
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EmoSaru 2018-12-16 18:18
@MelonSpeedruns your project sounds really cool! Definitely stay tuned for more info on network features in the future. While this case was okay I think, due to the discussion of leveraging emotracker as part of the project, I do want to remind people to avoid advertising other projects here without getting approval from me beforehand. (edited)
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haroldjohnson 2018-12-17 12:23
hey all. just saying hi. I got interested in randomizer runs during the speedgaming fall tourney and I found this tracker as I'm starting to learn how to run it. thanks for making it and thanks for being a great community.
👍 1
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blasteg 2018-12-18 18:15
so, do we have any idea what the entrance rando support might look like?
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EmoSaru 2018-12-18 18:43
Yes, but I'm not at a point where I can share details. You will hear about it when it's ready.
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Crusharr 2018-12-18 22:10
What do the colored squares mean on the map tracker? I understand green means fully in logic. Need help with yellow, orange, and blue please.
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CodeGorilla 2018-12-18 22:11
Yellow = out of logic, but available. Blue = can check, but not obtain. Orange = multiple things at this location with different statuses.
22:11
(Red = not available, Black = cleared.)
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Crusharr 2018-12-18 22:12
Great! Thabk you so much. Havent seen red or black on this particular one but will keep an eye out
22:12
*thank
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JRJathome 2018-12-18 22:12
Red and black are hidden by default
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CodeGorilla 2018-12-18 22:12
Red and black are hidden by default. Press F11 to show them.
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Crusharr 2018-12-18 22:13
Ooof. That is too loud. Think i will leave it off
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CodeGorilla 2018-12-18 22:13
Yeah, that's definitely reasonable for some games.
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JRJathome 2018-12-18 22:13
Yeah, I typically leave those off unless I'm troubleshooting something.
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Crusharr 2018-12-19 08:06
Do i need speed booster in order to continuously spin in the air?
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rand(0) 2018-12-19 09:17
If you're talking about super metroid then no it requires nothing at all, also this question doesn't belong on this discord fyi.
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Crusharr 2018-12-19 12:50
Ha sorry. Saw general and thought i was in the sm+lttp group. Thanks for answering though. Must be user error. I will follow up over there
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Cheezinator 2018-12-26 17:52
hey tracker-loving friends. does anyone know if there are any web browser-based, or Mac OS X compatible tracker for SM+ALTTP combo?
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JRJathome 2018-12-26 17:55
Sorry, but Emo doesn't want links to other trackers in this server. I recommend asking in the SM+ALTTP discord. https://discord.gg/PMKcDPQ
👍 1
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キノ 2018-12-27 19:46
Do you know if @EmoSaru would be willing to share the source code to possibly port the program to iOS and/or Android?
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EmoSaru 2018-12-27 19:46
I do. No.
😄 1
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キノ 2018-12-27 19:46
Ah okay fair enough
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EmoSaru 2018-12-27 19:46
😃
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キノ 2018-12-27 19:46
Thanks for the answer!
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EmoSaru 2018-12-27 19:47
No problem!
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-28 12:01
where can i get the emotracker? i do not stream so i just need it for personal purpose
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rand(0) 2018-12-28 12:01
#faq
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-28 12:02
thx
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 10:48
one question: is the tracker opensource?
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 10:48
No, and she doesn't plan on it.
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 10:49
okay
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 10:49
Is the tracker open source? No. While it may go open source at some point in the distant future, I am trying to push for core feature additions with people able to do what they need to do via packs, because I am hoping to increase platform adoption. So for the time being, I have zero plans to open source the core app.
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 10:53
what streaming software can u recommend me for emotracker?
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Showsan 2018-12-29 10:54
any but OBS or Streamlabs work well
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 10:54
Any stream software will work if you're just using a window capture. If you wanna use the NDI features, you'll need software that supports it.
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 10:54
so i shouldnt use obs or streamlabs? sry german boi here XD
10:55
yeah so i need to stream to windows at once: tracker and emulator XD
10:55
two*
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 10:55
The one I personally use is OBS Studio.
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 10:56
okay does it need much performance? cause my laptop is very bad
10:56
i could send u a pic of my specs so u see how bad my laptop is
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Natalie 2018-12-29 10:56
OBS works great what are you talking about
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Showsan 2018-12-29 10:57
@HorizonLetsPlays OBS is pretty lightweight, shouldn't be an issue
10:57
it's more about your bandwidth for internet
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 10:57
Confusion over lack of punctuation I think, Natalie.
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 10:57
yeah my bandwith here in my room is about 30mbit/s
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Natalie 2018-12-29 10:58
>any but OBS or Streamlabs work well
10:58
No punctuation missing here
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JRJathome 2018-12-29 10:58
any. but OBS or Streamlabs work well I think that's what they meant.
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Showsan 2018-12-29 10:58
What JR said
10:58
😉
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 10:58
@Natalie its not u with the pronounciation its me i dont understand im german
10:59
so i understand but not so much
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Natalie 2018-12-29 10:59
What was written, with the lack of punctuation, means what you interpreted it as.
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 11:00
so is 30mbit/s fast enough to stream with 720p?
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Natalie 2018-12-29 11:00
Is that your uplink speed?
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Showsan 2018-12-29 11:00
@HorizonLetsPlays OBS ist gut zu bedienen und belastet Ihren Computer nicht.
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 11:00
okay thx
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Showsan 2018-12-29 11:00
😃
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 11:00
@Natalie wait 1 sec doing a speedtest
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Natalie 2018-12-29 11:00
Your uplink/upload speed is what matters in streaming
11:01
I have 10mbit/s up and don't have any real problem.
11:01
..At least, not that I've been told about.
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 11:04
@Natalie ive got 7.3 mbit/s uplink
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Natalie 2018-12-29 11:04
Shouldn't be terrible...
11:05
If you have a decent down speed, you can try watching your own stream
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 11:05
down i had 38mbit/s
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Natalie 2018-12-29 11:06
Should be sufficient. Give it a try, see how it holds up.
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 11:07
yeah downloading obs now
11:07
i really like to stream some alttp randomizer
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HorizonLetsPlays 2018-12-29 12:28
is there a way to change the broadcaster window background
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Rockomazi 2018-12-29 19:10
hey just a quick question how do i set the tracker to be open but no glitches
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-29 19:16
Seems like a question for #pack-support where you should specify what pack you're using and @ the pack creator
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Zembar 2018-12-30 12:59
Did someone leave their phone unlocked?
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Natalie 2018-12-30 12:59
You call this a raid?
13:00
Even tumblr could do better.
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Kelik 2018-12-30 13:00
i just left a rude note on its profile and blocked it
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WEEGEE666 2018-12-30 13:00
please, if you want a raid, go talk to quackity
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Sal the Dragon 2018-12-30 13:08
Time to ban?
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JRJathome 2018-12-30 14:00
Took care of it.
👍 5
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EmoSaru 2018-12-31 12:48
Jokes are fun, but let’s not get into areas that could potentially be uncomfortable for others.
12:49
For clarity, yes I deleted two messages. They weren’t offensive in and of themselves, but I don’t want to open the gates on that slippery slope.
💩 2
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SamofHearts 2018-12-31 16:51
Like 3 months ago you were talking about Lush bath bombs on stream. Got some for Christmas. Totally worth the hype soooo good
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Deleted User 2019-01-02 12:00
will there be item map tracking for wind waker?
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-02 12:00
There already is -_-
12:01
Maybe download EmoTracker and check the available packages before asking that question lol
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Deleted User 2019-01-02 12:01
my bad, I'm sorry
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EmoSaru 2019-01-02 12:03
No worries - just FYI, the one truly great thing about EmoTracker is that I don't build most of the game packs, and anybody can do so if they've got the drive and the willingness to learn. For many item randomizers, there are packs already, with devs who keep them up to date. Barring features that a given game would require but aren't available yet (that's on me), the answer to "does EmoTracker support <insert game here>" is more or less always, "it will if you make it happen". (edited)
😀 1
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TetraxZ 2019-01-03 19:26
i'm not really sure where to post this but i recently finished making a pack for the game Environmental Station Alpha and was wondering how I would be able to let others use the pack
Image attachment
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JRJathome 2019-01-03 19:27
You'd have to work with @EmoSaru to get it added to the download manager.
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Natalie 2019-01-03 19:34
Oh jeez I remembered that game and actually forgot about it thank you for reminding me. There's a rando now, or is this just shenanigans for sequence breaks?
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TetraxZ 2019-01-03 19:34
yeah theres an official randomizer
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Natalie 2019-01-03 19:38
Official, you say? Neat.
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Solski 2019-01-05 17:43
@EmoSaru is your tracker android based yet for my tablet?
17:43
Asking for a friend
17:43
Also expecting a prompt response within 5 minutes or im dropping your sponsorship
17:43
wednesdaysarebad
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-05 17:45
theres no mobile support, no
17:45
and i dont think theres plans to, to my knowledge
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Solski 2019-01-05 17:55
unimpressedkermit
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JRJathome 2019-01-05 17:56
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386962041249988627/501894844982231041/2k9pwh.png
Embedded image
😆 1
pieLUL 1
pieIt 1
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Natalie 2019-01-05 18:31
Looks like the Z1 invite in #faq died
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EmoSaru 2019-01-05 18:54
Lost internet partway through the flight, had to wait to land so I could tell @Solski to shush. (edited)
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Solski 2019-01-06 17:48
Shut up emo peposmug
17:48
Also im here
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fujita🌪 2019-01-07 12:28
I have a dumb question
12:28
there's no EmoTracker Mac support, is there?
12:28
Decided to bring my macbook to GDQ and I'm almost regretting that decision
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Natalie 2019-01-07 12:30
Your only hope is going to be somehow adapting a recently pinned guide to EmoTracker function in wine on linux.
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-07 12:30
No, and there's no plans to
12:30
#faq
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Natalie 2019-01-07 12:31
(Or you can get your hands on a little Windows VM.)
12:31
Though in all honesty, getting a macbook should probably be the decision you regret the most. >.>
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-07 12:31
^
12:31
This lol
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fujita🌪 2019-01-07 12:32
I do have a windows VM, but I never planned on installing it because I usually have a Windows gaming PC with me
12:32
I just wanted to save my back on the flight lol
12:33
was hoping to get a couple randos in, I'm gonna suck ass without knowing what I'm doing lmao
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Natalie 2019-01-07 12:44
🤷
12:44
A valid point on not dragging the beast around (for various reasons)
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fujita🌪 2019-01-07 12:47
I mean, push come to shove I'll use one of the pc's in the practice room, I have flash drives.
12:47
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
12:47
ya girl is lazy
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Kalaaleq 2019-01-07 12:49
Is there a package available for download that speedrunslive channels uses for races?
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Natalie 2019-01-07 12:50
I'm vaguely certain they use a homebrew web app which tracker roles can click on to do the thing. Don't quote me. You'd get better results asking them directly how their tracking works. (edited)
12:50
(If you're just looking for an items-only pack for personal use, there are lots of those. And even if there isn't, the full map tracker will still give you items-only in Broadcast View.)
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Kalaaleq 2019-01-07 12:52
I am not as creative that I thought I was. SRL channels ones seems pretty neat. Instead of crystals, they are icons. Kinda awesome.
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yoko (Tsukune0078) 2019-01-07 12:54
i use the by cross
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Natalie 2019-01-07 12:56
No harm in downloading every package EmoTracker offers for your game of choice and grabbing the one you like the best
12:56
If you have space concerns, packages are downloaded to Documents\EmoTracker (edited)
12:57
(you can also go there to cull packages you won't use, to declutter the list)
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zxtury 2019-01-10 00:47
@EmoSaru dont know if this fits here, but theres a misspelling in your alttp tracker, SP boss is arrghus not arrgus
00:47
HF at AGDQ
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EmoSaru 2019-01-10 00:48
#pack-support , but that’s odd and I will look into it
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ミシウス 2019-01-13 16:50
@EmoSaru @Lechtansi I don't think I have an actual memory problem, but I am generally pretty bad at remembering things
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Lechtansi 2019-01-13 17:22
Fun fact - my memory has actually gotten better due to rando. I can now count items at least
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Gilgatex 2019-01-14 11:17
So hypothetical based on the conversation in #customization-support. There is actual support in EmoTracker for algorithm building for automatic routing. It wouldn't be easy, but it would be possible. Would that be cheating if it was used in a race?
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EmoSaru 2019-01-14 11:18
Currently, yes. Which is why I haven’t done the thing you are subtly suggesting.
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Gilgatex 2019-01-14 11:19
Honestly any pack creator could do it. I don't plan to and I'm not suggesting it. Just a though experiment.
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EmoSaru 2019-01-14 11:19
Sorry, you’re talking about scripting I guess, in which case - yes - it’s technically possible, albeit with a horrible ui.
11:20
If I added auto tracking, the tracker is fully capable of solving the game like a Rubik’s cube.
11:20
It’s a very slippery slope, and one I’m careful to avoid stepping into
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Tehkoa 2019-01-19 08:34
So I've read the #faq and im still kinda confused on one thing (edited)
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-19 08:56
Go on
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Tehkoa 2019-01-19 09:09
I set up the chat integration but in the Faq it says to click on the twitch icon? Im unsure as to where or what it exactly means.
09:10
im using the Hamsda OOT item only tracker
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-19 09:10
Bottom right corner of your tracker. Right click on it and click connect
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Tehkoa 2019-01-19 09:10
It's not there for me?
09:10
Just a folder icon
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Sal the Dragon 2019-01-19 09:11
Put a screenshot on #general-support
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Tehkoa 2019-01-19 09:11
But the tracker says it's chathud optimized?
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Lumpialex 2019-01-19 14:38
Question when it comes to marking chests
14:39
Do you count the chests with keys/maps?
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Natalie 2019-01-19 14:39
Only in keysanity
14:40
In non-keysanity packs that use combined chest counts rather than individual chest marks, the chest count only refers to the total number of non-dungeon items
14:40
e.g. Skull Woods is full of keys in chests, but only has two item checks in the entire dungeon
14:41
..and that includes the boss item location in that count of two valid item checks (edited)
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Lumpialex 2019-01-19 14:46
Ah ty
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MyzeryKB 2019-01-19 22:32
what does the outlined box mean next to the chests for some locations? for example the library
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JRJathome 2019-01-19 22:34
That's for locations where you can see the item before you collect it. You can use the box to mark if there's an important item there so you can come back later once you can get it.
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MyzeryKB 2019-01-19 22:34
o ok, thanks!
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Natalie 2019-01-19 22:40
More generally, you can discover what the item is in that location before you can actually pick it up. Usually this is by actually seeing it for yourself, but some randomizers (notably Ocarina of Time) provide hints for certain annoying item checks. Functionally in the tracker, it's the same thing.
22:41
tl;dr: the locations with the dotted outline box next to them (blue locations, if you have default colors and no in-logic access to obtain the item) are locations where you can know what the item is before you can pick it up.
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Solski 2019-01-20 19:16
Why was i summoned
19:16
rustled
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EmoSaru 2019-01-20 19:18
Because I made an announcement. Feel free to direct all comments about getting pinged literally less than once a month to the trash can.
19:18
https://giphy.com/gifs/this-is-fine-dumpster-fire-floating-1rNWZu4QQqCUaq434T
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👌🏻 3
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JRJathome 2019-01-20 19:19
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UnhappyFatherlyGoa-max-1mb.gif
printer to shredder
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ChristosOwen 2019-01-20 19:20
ok but is hovering banned yet
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EmoSaru 2019-01-20 19:21
Image attachment
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Ninban 2019-01-20 19:21
make hovering a sequence break kthxbye
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EmoSaru 2019-01-20 19:21
#suggestions 👀
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ChristosOwen 2019-01-20 19:22
why did you have that so readily available haha
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EmoSaru 2019-01-20 19:22
I keep all important things readily available.
19:22
That is a highly useful screen cap, lol
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Natalie 2019-01-20 19:48
is that
19:48
is that actual footage of tumblr
19:48
that is an amazing gif of a dumpster fire though
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Gilgatex 2019-01-21 07:41
Real floating dumpster, fake fire
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Natalie 2019-01-21 07:42
well of course
07:43
no one's going to stop and light a dumpster on fire in the middle of a flood 🤔
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Gilgatex 2019-01-21 07:43
Except maybe lightning! It could happen, but it didn't 😃
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fylion 2019-01-21 09:16
Okay, I've actually read the new release notes now.
09:17
There's a lot here that can make entrance (and co-op in general) work really nicely 😃
09:17
Will this make me ditch notepad 🤔
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River 2019-01-21 10:03
been gone for about 2 months what have i missed?
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EmoSaru 2019-01-21 12:17
There's a lot here that can make entrance (and co-op in general) work really nicely :smiley:
👀
12:18
Those paying attention may have noticed this currently inactive thing in the top left...
Image attachment
12:18
I will say that it's a sign of things to come.
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fylion 2019-01-21 13:04
👀
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Ninban 2019-01-21 13:27
I'm not sure I'll use markdown much. I'm more likely to write in that style: "wicht sohp" 🤔
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EmoSaru 2019-01-21 13:41
So, markdown (even the small subset I currently support) is definitely a bit overkill for just taking notes. There are a bunch of things I'm considering adding in the future though, where having available support for things like markdown will allow for some cool stuff.
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Hamsda 2019-01-21 15:08
btw I like the new package manager icon 😄
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EmoSaru 2019-01-21 16:38
The best thing about it is that it will show up reliably for Windows 7 users, but yes 😉
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Solski 2019-01-21 17:41
I regret not coming back to the convo earlier
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Syrelash 2019-01-23 16:25
Hey hey. Is there a list of available lua methods?
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EmoSaru 2019-01-23 16:37
The only officially supported methods are the load methods, which you can find in pretty much any pack. I will not be exposing any more information until I'm officially supporting additional APIs. (edited)
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Taybay 2019-01-24 16:55
Oh yeah yeah
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Circle Onyx 2019-01-26 13:47
What does the go thing mean in the ALTTPR tracker mean?
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Kaizo 2019-01-26 13:48
it's to signal that you have all the items required to complete the game
13:48
aka "GO mode"
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Circle Onyx 2019-01-26 13:48
Ok
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Whatsoup 2019-01-27 11:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8X75l7iz-w&feature=youtu.be&a=
ZFG
OoT Multiworld Randomizer - ZFG Twitch Highlights
11:42
what tracker is zfg using in this video? (skip to like halfway through)
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LostThePirate 2019-01-27 11:43
zfg is using Not EmoTracker. If you want further assistance, ask the OoTR peeps.
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Whatsoup 2019-01-27 11:44
ah gotcha didn't realize it wasn't an emotracker package, ty
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lakh 2019-01-27 16:01
can someone explain what the "yellow" locations represent? ie I didn't understand why it shows gloves as a requirement for escape
16:01
specifically on lttpr
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EmoSaru 2019-01-27 16:11
Yellow means sequence break. In LTTP, in dungeons specifically, I also used that to denote things you MIGHt be able to get everything without.
16:11
The gloves can be required in open mode depending on the key layout
16:11
To get the chests in the back of escape
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lakh 2019-01-27 16:42
ah of course, i didn't even think about the fact that you might be glove locked depending on keys
16:42
thank you!
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Kalryn 2019-01-28 08:15
Is there a way to tell the tracker I have a medallion for MM/TR? I have access to MM but I can't make it turn green so that I can check off chests.
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Alice (Soko) 2019-01-28 08:17
Right click on the medallion and you can set it to which dungeon it opens
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Kalryn 2019-01-28 08:20
Yay! Thank you so much
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Brogor 2019-01-28 16:58
which chest in TT is called AMBUSH chesT?
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JRJathome 2019-01-28 17:01
The second chest that people normally get. It's called that because 2 zols appear behind you as you're going toward the chest.
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Brogor 2019-01-28 17:01
aye. thanks my brother, so its definitely one of those before the big key is needed
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JRJathome 2019-01-28 17:03
This isn't tracker related, but IHaveNoName has a good guide for each location name in the spoiler log. (check the tabs at the bottom of the spreadsheet for detailed info) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U09oSogEFcswqiyTyAPnH4nn6OD6_hswVFu-It48LZk/edit#gid=0
LTTP Randomizer Spoiler Image catalog
Table of Contents NW Light World,|,NE LIght World,|,South Light World,|,Death Mountain,|,Dark World,|,Dungeons Mushroom,Link's Uncle,Link's House,Old Man,Pyramid,Hyrule Castle + Sanc + AT Lost Woods Hideout,Secret Passage,Library,Spectacle Rock Cave,Pyramid Fairy - Left,East...
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Brogor 2019-01-28 17:04
jeah i checked if there was a " helping a noob " channel 😄 but there wasnt :p so i thought i keep it low profile in general ^^
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EmoSaru 2019-01-28 17:05
In general, for game-related questions (not tracker specific) your best resource is the discord for that game.
😉 1
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JRJathome 2019-01-28 17:06
Yep. In the ALTTPR discord, there's a #training-room channel that usually has people available to answer questions.
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Brogor 2019-01-28 17:10
yes i tried there as well :;) just thought that usually people here seem more " close " dont know how to explain
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Natalie 2019-01-28 17:20
Sometimes you have to actually wait for an answer
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Solski 2019-01-29 15:17
Hey emo how do i find boots faster
15:17
peposmug
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JRJathome 2019-01-29 15:21
Play Overworld Glitches.
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Solski 2019-01-30 12:12
Well played
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Rockomazi 2019-01-31 19:15
hey how do i undo when i click the wrong spot
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JRJathome 2019-01-31 19:16
Press F11 to show all locations, then double click the spot to pin it and right click on the chest.
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Rockomazi 2019-01-31 19:16
okay thanks
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Vaevictus 2019-02-02 10:50
Hmm.... should Ice Palace require cane of somaria for green? (it appears to)
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JRJathome 2019-02-02 10:51
Depending on key placement, it could.
10:51
Basically, if Kholdstare has a small key, then the logic expects you to use the cane.
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Natalie 2019-02-02 10:55
Everyone does the Ice Palace bomb jump once they learn it, though, so you're saving at least one key there (which skips Somaria in that situation). It's one of those techs that is always allowed but generally not in logic. LttPR discord or SMZ3 crossover discord can supply details there.
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JRJathome 2019-02-02 10:57
Correct. But this is considered a sequence break and is why EmoTracker can't have IP colored green without it.
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Vaevictus 2019-02-02 11:08
use the cane for what, exactly?
11:09
oh... downstairs before kholdstare
11:09
lol
11:09
i got good enough at IPBJ that i forgot about cane
11:09
isn't it possible to not IPBJ and still push the blue block down?
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JRJathome 2019-02-02 11:10
Not if Kholdstare has a small key since it blocks access to the other crystal switch that's near Kholdstare.
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Vaevictus 2019-02-02 11:10
gotcha. thanks
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Cadenza 2019-02-02 11:12
I've just noticed a small logic error :
Image attachment
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Natalie 2019-02-02 11:17
aren't there zero chest keys behind the hookshot chest
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JRJathome 2019-02-02 11:18
They're pointing out that Arrghus is showing as in logic without the small key
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Natalie 2019-02-02 11:18
oh. right. THAT key. I forgot it gave you a chest key at the start.
11:18
Which is, frankly, silly... because it could have been accomplished with a gate.
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Vaevictus 2019-02-02 12:04
i kinda wish we had blue boxes for entering TR and MM
12:04
until we mark which medallion they are
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EmoSaru 2019-02-02 12:54
The blue box won’t happen, but I will fix the swamp issue soon
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Cadenza 2019-02-02 13:00
ty 😃
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Scheris 2019-02-02 16:23
Hoping this is the right place to put this, I noticed in the FAQs channel the invite for the "Zelda 1 Randomizer" Discord server seemed to be expired. (Everything else seems to be working fine, though.) (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-02 17:14
If anybody can send me an updated (permanent) invite for that server, I will update it
17:14
All of those links were provided to me by others
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JRJathome 2019-02-02 17:24
This one seems to work. https://discordapp.com/invite/HzgQfG
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EmoSaru 2019-02-02 18:13
The #faq link has been updated
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Solski 2019-02-02 20:22
Ur a faq
20:22
dolan
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LostThePirate 2019-02-02 21:12
Showing as an Invalid Invite for me
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Hamsda 2019-02-02 21:17
looks good on my end
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JRJathome 2019-02-02 21:17
Hmm... Does discord.me generate a new invite link each time it's used? How stupid...
21:21
https://discord.gg/VTRSwKR
21:21
Alright, I genned that one myself, so it should stay valid.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-02 21:44
there is an option when generating invites to make them not expire
21:45
when gen'ing permanent invites, the link generally stays consistent IIRC
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JRJathome 2019-02-02 22:09
I'm aware. The problem is the Z1 randomizer discord uses a 3rd party site to generate the actual invite links, so they can just link everyone to https://discord.me/z1randomizer. It's much easier to remember, but the invite links expire after some time. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-02 23:00
ah
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Hamsda 2019-02-02 23:08
yeah discord.me are "fake" vanity urls instead of discord.gg
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Nelliel (Shippo) 2019-02-03 05:42
whats the best thing to use when wanting to randomize oot and tracking the items?
05:42
does it show where i can go and whatnot as well?
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JRJathome 2019-02-03 08:09
Hamsda's map pack is best if you're new to the randomizer. My pack doesn't include a map and Spleebie's is a bit out of date.
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fishngolf88 2019-02-04 14:25
I was playing the other day and had to stop halfway through to do something and I picked up the silver arrows and when I turned it back on to finish playing it said I didn't have them. So I went to where I picked them up and they weren't there. This has happened to me twice now.
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fylion 2019-02-04 14:26
1) You can use the Y button to switch between regular and silver arrows. 2) This is a question better suited for the alttpr discord.
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fishngolf88 2019-02-04 14:27
Sorry I thought that was where I was.
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Kazakazi 2019-02-10 10:36
So, I could use emotracker to do a vanilla 100 run of super metroid, to check off items as I go, right?
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Hamsda 2019-02-10 10:42
pretty much yeah
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Natalie 2019-02-10 12:37
Map tracker packages can, in most cases, be used as a learning aid for even the vanilla game
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Zaz 2019-02-11 05:17
When I open a new alltpr standard map tracker, the zora area is marked orange, which should mean it's partially accessible, right? Exactly which part of the zora area is partially accessible?
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chaotickclock 2019-02-11 05:18
I think theres a cave in a waterfall you need flippies for
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Zaz 2019-02-11 05:18
that is a separate mark, and it is red
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chaotickclock 2019-02-11 05:18
Huh
05:19
Maybe the thing on the ledge
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Zaz 2019-02-11 05:19
you need flippers for that
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Zaz 2019-02-11 05:29
I'm thinking it's a bug, where the king zora location isnt properly inheriting the generic "zora area" access rules from its parent object.
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blasteg 2019-02-11 05:29
I think you can see it with fake flipper?
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Zaz 2019-02-11 05:30
but that should make the icon yellow?
05:30
not orange
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Ninban 2019-02-11 05:33
You can sequence break king Zora (yellow) and you can seq break see the ledge, which leads to orange instead of blue
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Zaz 2019-02-11 05:33
that's weird
05:33
how does that make sense
05:33
yellow + another yellow = orange?
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deserteagle417 2019-02-11 05:57
You can sequence break King Zora immediately, whereas you need to be able to store a water walk in order to sequence break the ledge, so without the items to do that, it's only partially sequence breakable.
06:03
It's been a while since I've done that, but you need the boots and maybe the moon pearl.
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-11 06:05
One of the two
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Zaz 2019-02-11 06:06
yes, but it's still a sequence break, so it should be yellow, not orange
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-11 06:06
I think entering waterfall fairy and going straight out without turning left or right does store the waterwalk Needs pearl for that
06:07
I am daltonist and never bothered looking at those colours so I can only say that
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Zaz 2019-02-11 06:07
as a user, seeing orange signals to me "i should be able to go here and do some things without having to sequence break" while yellow signals "you need to sequence break to get this"
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Natalie 2019-02-11 06:15
orange is "mixed access rules; look inside for details"
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LostThePirate 2019-02-11 06:37
If there are two checks, one currently sequence breakable and one potentially sequence breakable with additionally kit, it will display the area as mixed/orange, since you can't currently perform both of the sequence breaks.
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Natalie 2019-02-11 06:54
"potentially sequence breakable with additional kit" is "you can't do this yet" which is red
06:55
because one item is a sequence break and the other is inaccessible/only visible, the accessibility of the map location is mixed and is therefore orange
06:57
mixed accessibility contains inaccessible locations and accessible/breakable
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キノ 2019-02-11 07:37
Storing water walk via the waterfall fairy isn’t sufficient
07:38
To get the ledge item you either need flippers, boots, or a fairy in a bottle
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-11 08:07
Orange is "can't get everything glitchless" in short
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EmoSaru 2019-02-11 10:16
Orange is partial access, break or not, and additionally the ledge item is also inspectable at that point. I don’t consider it a bug, and it won’t be changing. (edited)
10:18
The tracker is designed to provide useful information, but knowledge of the game and what you can do is required to interpret it at max speed.
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The_Black_Sheep 2019-02-12 11:04
hello
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Rikkukun 2019-02-12 12:08
👋
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Dyminthos 2019-02-15 17:25
Good evening, all.
17:25
Does EmoTracker auto-update?
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JRJathome 2019-02-15 17:25
Yes.
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Dyminthos 2019-02-15 17:25
Sorry. That's ambiguous.
17:25
Does it auto-update what has been collected in ALttP?
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JRJathome 2019-02-15 17:25
Oh lol.
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Dyminthos 2019-02-15 17:25
Not auto-update as in auto-update the executable.
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JRJathome 2019-02-15 17:25
Not currently.
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Dyminthos 2019-02-15 17:25
Blasted ambiguity. LOL!
17:26
Very cool. Thank you for confirming.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-15 17:42
Stay tuned in the next week or so... 👀
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holedaemon 2019-02-15 19:29
👀
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Derrick 2019-02-16 06:16
I have now begun testing the Links Awakening Pack
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RyanSaysJif 2019-02-16 07:51
Why do bean patch skullutlas show up as yellow even though I have a bottle? Tokensanity is on if it matters but I can't figure it out. (edited)
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Ketris 2019-02-16 07:57
@RyanSaysJif seems right to me. the square is orange ("mixed" access, i don't have beans) and the skull check itself is white.
Image attachment
07:58
then with some beans in the inventory + bean tracking on the whole square is green as expected
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RyanSaysJif 2019-02-16 08:06
@Ketris So take a look at the Kokiri Forest spot. It's yellow, which indicates it's only available through sequence breaks yeah? (edited)
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08:08
And even if I add some beans and a true empty bottle, it's still yellow.
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Hamsda 2019-02-16 08:24
might be a mistake in my code, i'll take a look soon this should go in #pack-support though
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Otome 2019-02-19 00:02
is there an easy way to make packages yet
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Natalie 2019-02-19 00:03
Is there an easy way to write a program in code?
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Otome 2019-02-19 00:10
I'll take that as no
00:10
So I have to figure out code
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:13
Calling it code is a bit of a stretch
00:14
Outside of a modicum of Lua, it’s all declarative json data
00:14
It is simpler in many ways than building a modern web page
00:14
So I guess I would ask, how easy do you think it needs to be?
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Natalie 2019-02-19 00:14
There is still a certain amount of learning to be done; there's no WYSIWYG editor of any kind short of reloading the pack every time you make a change.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:15
Reloading the tracker is faster than any compile of any scripting language I’ve ever done
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:15
I mean, there's definitely a way to make a WYSIWYG editor, but that'd take a bit of work. For now, hope you like JSON. (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:15
It’s equivalent to reloading a web page
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Otome 2019-02-19 00:16
a wysiwyg editor would be great one day. just click an option, click where it would be
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:16
Frankly, building a quality wysiwyg editor will take more time than I believe it will save
00:16
There is a very fast workflow
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:17
The hardest part for me has been trying to piece together the logic in terms of the code (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:17
Logic is hard
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:17
I just got finished with Snowhead logic for the most part
00:17
Can't wait to do Great Bay...
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:18
At the end of the day, I have very deliberately targeted a particular level of necessary competence and effort, because I believe it balances well with the benefits of a very explicit system that, once learned, is very predictable
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:19
It definitely is a nice system once you get it down.
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Otome 2019-02-19 00:19
if i knew anything about majora's mask logic, i'd help
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:19
albeit, with thousands of lines of JSON
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Otome 2019-02-19 00:19
but i don't sadly
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:19
So when it comes to development workflow, outside of eventually actually finding some of my entirely theoretical free time to continue developing the documentation, I have no plans to radically overhaul the workflow.
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blasteg 2019-02-19 00:20
I'd love to have a list of all available options, like
initial_active_state
somewhere outside of digging other packs
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:20
I think documentation is the only thing I'd like out of the tracker now. It can get a bit tedious and confusing peering at others' code and toying around to get it to work how you'd like it to.
00:21
Other than that, it's been pretty awesome to work with, especially allowing me to reload changes very quickly.
00:21
Also F11 is the best thing ever
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Otome 2019-02-19 00:21
what's f11
00:22
is that reload?
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:22
Show all locations
00:22
Makes positioning a location on a map really nice
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:22
Documentation is something I am working on. But there are currently less than 20 people who have built or are building packs. There are several thousand who want other things, so given that I do all of this at the expense of pretty much all of my free time lately, it's taken a backseat to some other features that I've been talking with communities about for a long time.
00:22
Documentation will come though.
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:23
I'm not worried about it, honestly
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Otome 2019-02-19 00:23
just list out hotkeys for us and we'll be fine
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:23
I think I can get by with other peoples' packs and the occasional question or two
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:23
There is a list of hotkeys.
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Otome 2019-02-19 00:23
where
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:23
In #faq
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:23
^^^
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Otome 2019-02-19 00:23
i'm dumb as hell and need hand holding
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:23
FAQ is a wonderful location to see if there's an answer to your questions
00:24
hence the name
00:25
I will say you're doing God's work with this tracker by the way (edited)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:25
I've got to go in a moment, but I want to leave with this statement. I have gone to great pains to ensure that pack creation is, rather than something anybody can do, something that anybody can LEARN to do, given an appropriate investment of time and effort.
00:26
When I feel like the effort of doing something is inappropriately high, or something is not possible, those who've published packs in the past will by and large (I think) agree that I'm VERY responsive.
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:28
That's fair. See ya!
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:29
Side note - if you want me to have more free time, do me a favor and convince the entire internet to stop using WIndows 7 and upgrade to Windows 10.
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:29
I'd love to but uh
00:29
The internet
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EmoSaru 2019-02-19 00:29
Alas
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blasteg 2019-02-19 00:29
oof
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Tekky 2019-02-19 00:30
I really need to learn how to do higher level programming at some point
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Ninban 2019-02-19 03:35
SSL3 is garbage
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GankyStanky 2019-02-20 18:42
how do i install a pack? like the SMRPG i have OOT Randomizer but i dont see where i can install another game item tracker
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Sal the Dragon 2019-02-20 18:44
Same place you got the OoT pack. The little cloud icon at the top
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GankyStanky 2019-02-20 18:45
thank you i already had OOT item tracker and an older version of the EMO tracker thats why i couldnt see the new packs. it didnt notify me of an update but i figured it out thank you!
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Sal the Dragon 2019-02-20 18:46
👌
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LordDarkfor 2019-02-20 23:54
so uh the majora's mask map tracker is missing a check. its the great bay heart piece that you need a magic bean, the hookshot, song of storms or a bottle of water, and scare crow song to access. its just about east of the fisherman island check. not sure if this was the right place to post this but since its not a bug and i dont need support this seemed like the best place. (edited)
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Sal the Dragon 2019-02-20 23:55
The general conversation channel was definitely not the right place lol #pack-support is a better channel
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Natalie 2019-02-20 23:55
a missing check is definitely a bug in a pack
23:55
so it goes in #pack-support and you @ the creator with it
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LordDarkfor 2019-02-20 23:56
I mean I would consider it more as missing content, but I'll repost it there thank you. (edited)
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Idoro 2019-02-21 05:18
Hi
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Otome 2019-02-21 13:40
https://www.polygon.com/2019/2/21/18235072/nintendo-reggie-fils-aime-retires-doug-bowser-president
Reggie Fils-Aime retiring from Nintendo
Doug Bowser to take over as president of Nintendo of America
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Naofa Arach 2019-02-23 09:45
Note To Self: Brain Does not Function without Tracker Map. Don't Attempt to play Alttpr by Memory... It Never Ends well.
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-24 14:11
Ooooh, SD2SNES support for auto tracking
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 14:14
https://twitter.com/EmoSaru/status/1099793839231913984
Author icon
EmoSaru (@EmoSaru)
EmoTracker v2.3 WITH AUTO-TRACKING SUPPORT FOR ALTTPR is LIVE! My stream is going live momentarily, and I'll be running the weekly open race. Please feel free to stop by if you have any questions about it. https://t.co/96bFP1TnZu https://t.co/fQKFbs2p1i
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Footer icon Twitter
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Espy the Espeon 2019-02-24 14:31
Congrats on getting it done ^-^
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-24 14:35
Guess I need to get one soon. Just waiting for the SD2SNES Pro to drop
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SamofHearts 2019-02-24 14:40
I'm assuming since it isn't listed that autotracking doesn't work with superNT but is it something you may add in the future?
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beenieweenie 2019-02-24 14:41
I guess this is what finally makes me move to BizHawk, huh?
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x10power | FFMQ Tracker 2019-02-24 15:07
I think when I had to install the framework for the newest Emo tracker it got scare at first as I had like 15 programs using it at the moment lol
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 16:46
@SamofHearts It works with an SD2SNES in the SuperNT perfectly. The SuperNT jailbreak firmware by itself does not support the necessary connectivity.
😉 1
❤ 1
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somebodys 2019-02-24 17:02
Is there an idiots guide to enabling auto tracking somewhere? I've only ever used the base tracker before and don't know anything about packs. (edited)
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Espeon 2019-02-24 17:05
pinned in #general-support
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somebodys 2019-02-24 17:05
Thank you
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KevinCathcart 2019-02-24 17:09
That guide is for emulator usage, SD2SNES is rather different setup. Probably be nice to have a good setup guide for that one, although demand might be lower. Even CrowdControl's setup guide for that is a bit terse. (I understand it fine, but could see how some people could get confused if not familar with updating firmware on SD2SNES). I'm sure somebody will make a good video tutorial for each within the next week or so. (edited)
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Espeon 2019-02-24 17:11
i figured most people would be using emulator for it. also i don't have an sd2snes so yeah
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 17:11
SD2SNES is actually the easier of the two to get working, lol
17:12
I link to the CC instructions on the tracker website, largely because it's their UI and we should complain to them if the docs suck. 😉
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KevinCathcart 2019-02-24 17:14
Biggest issue for people trying SD2SNES is that they either need to install crowd control, and install the service, or run the orignal USB2SNES Gui. CC's setup guide obviously assumes the former.
17:15
I know you explicitly point that out, but also know how poor people are at actually following textual directions.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 17:17
Very, very true.
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Jaz 2019-02-24 17:33
Will the auto tracker ever be available on other emulators? I cannot get Bizhawk to work on my computer.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 17:41
That is a great question. What I can tell you right now is that support is limited to what ConnectorLib (and by extension the Crowd Control app) provides support for, which is currently bizhawk. Over time, I would like it to be supported in as many places as possible, but that is not entirely up to me. (edited)
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Jaz 2019-02-24 17:44
Okay, I will attempt again with Bizhawk. Thank you for all of your time and effort put into this.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 17:46
With some of the shit I've been reading for the last 30 minutes, we'll see whether I continue to feel it was worth it, lol.
17:47
https://giphy.com/gifs/reactionseditor-xThtawY1we4Krm3sSk
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Jaz 2019-02-24 17:52
Really? We first tested it out on my brothers computer, it worked great. It also takes out a lot of hassle for novice speed runners like me who forget to mark things off constantly. It is amazing and definitely worth it.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 17:56
That is not the issue. Nobody here is at all part of the issue. 😃
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Jaz 2019-02-24 17:58
Ahhh, okay okay. Sorry must of read it wrong. What is the issue then?
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Natalie 2019-02-24 18:01
Angry people being angry, probably screeching "preferential treatment" or "but muh pure cheat-free manual tracking"
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 18:02
I'm not going to get into it right now.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 18:38
Silly question, but where exactly are the instructions for how to get auto tracking working
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PSI Landy 2019-02-24 18:39
i believe theres a new pinned message in #general-support that might help.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 18:40
Is there another pinned message for SD2SNES?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 18:40
For SD2SNES, I recommend following the setup instructions for the Crowd Control app on their website.
18:40
You also have the option of using the original usb2snesw app
18:40
But the CC app is more modern, and runs in a slightly more convenient way.
18:40
So I do recommend that.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 18:40
Alright
18:41
So if I follow the crowd control doc that should get me there?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 18:41
Yes. Once you've got the "SD2SNES Service" running, you should be able to enable the autotracker and have it connect. Just make sure you're in the LTTPR file select screen first.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 18:47
Looks like I might have to go the backup plan way, the crowd control app SD2SNES install button isn't doing anything
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 18:48
Are you on Windows 7?
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 18:48
Windows 10
18:48
I thought maybe it wanted me to sign into twicth first but that wont work either. When I sign in and click authorize it just does nothing
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 18:49
Try running it as administrator. If that doesn't help, please absolutely report that to them on the Warp World discord, because they recently updated their client in significant ways.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 18:49
And anytime I click login it just hangs at that authorize dialog
18:49
Yeah I'll give admin mode a try
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 18:49
That said, you can absolutely use the auto-tracker with the usb2snesw app. https://github.com/RedGuyyyy/sd2snes/releases/tag/usb2snes_v9
RedGuyyyy/sd2snes
SD card based multi-purpose cartridge for the SNES - RedGuyyyy/sd2snes
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18:50
I recommend the CC app because it has a slightly more reliable implementation when it comes to maintaining the connection to the SD2SNES app in certain cases, but that obviously only matters if you can get it working for you.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 18:55
Yeah still not doing anything for me in admin mode
18:55
Link to the relevant discord?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 18:56
http://discord.warp.world/
Discord - Free voice and text chat for gamers
Step up your game with a modern voice & text chat app. Crystal clear voice, multiple server and channel support, mobile apps, and more. Get your free server now!
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18:57
Thank you for reporting it! If you don't get help there, then barring any other setup issues you may have, e.g. not having the USB firmware on your sd2snes, etc., I have personally tested the usb2snesw app as working as well.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 18:59
So upon joining I just see a welcome room and nothing else. Is that a result of one of those new account limiting functions
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Natalie 2019-02-24 19:00
I bet you'd be able to find that out by reading the welcome channel.
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JRJathome 2019-02-24 19:00
They do that because they've had people asking for help in the wrong channels. Just click on the checkmark below the post to get access to the rest of the channels.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:00
hahahaha I didn't read the fine print part
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Natalie 2019-02-24 19:01
..wait, that's a thing you can do? Fuck, we need that in every rando server.
19:01
"I am not a robot and am capable of reading"
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:01
Reacting to a post has an effect on the view, that's really cool
19:02
So what happens if I decline the rules, does the view self destruct?
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Ninban 2019-02-24 19:02
i'll try
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Natalie 2019-02-24 19:02
it probably would just kick you from the server
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Ninban 2019-02-24 19:02
it kicks you out of the server
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deserteagle417 2019-02-24 19:02
@Natalie you know that won't solve anything. They'll just click yes like ToS agreements desert19T
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Kirito 2019-02-24 19:02
anyone other than me having trouble connecting the auto tracker to bizhawk 😦
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Natalie 2019-02-24 19:03
point 🤷
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deserteagle417 2019-02-24 19:03
@Kirito checked the pinned messages in #general-support
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Natalie 2019-02-24 19:03
it'd slow them down though
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deserteagle417 2019-02-24 19:03
true
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Natalie 2019-02-24 19:03
..and also cut out the bots
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deserteagle417 2019-02-24 19:03
also true!
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:05
That's a really cool feature though, I'm curious what else you can script into a reaction button
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Ninban 2019-02-24 19:06
Anything
19:06
you actually have a bot react to reactions
19:06
so you can program anything you want
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:06
So if they click the wrong react it will install 43 rootkits on their system, awesome! (edited)
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Ninban 2019-02-24 19:06
weeell anything that was programmed 😉
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:10
Alright they helped me solve it. Definitely some bugginess involved, but logging into twitch from the crowd control website first and then trying the app seems to work better
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-24 19:11
Gotta be honest. There are some real characters in alttp rando server sobbing about auto tracking. Realistically, I can't see how much of a major benefit autotracking would offer over manually doing it, beyond MAYBE shaving a few seconds off if you are slow at tracking, or pick bad times to do it.
19:12
alttp may be tight, but I know for OoT, it has some long loading zones, and some spots just naturally offer time to flick around, like climbing out of the basement in BotW. (edited)
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Natalie 2019-02-24 19:14
look, if you can't track things during room transitions, you probably aren't moving your hands well enough
19:14
an autotracker does put the slower hands on par with the faster hands
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-24 19:14
Agreed, just behaves like a crutch honestly
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DaftPo 2019-02-24 19:15
People being lame self-appointed sheriffs about a hacked version of a 30 year old video game are the problem, not a cool feature on a neat tool
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-24 19:16
And at risk of sounding elitist, in my opinion, if you are running a computer that struggles to run a snes emulator, then it's time to upgrade the computer. It's probably about to die from old age anyways.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:17
@EmoSaru You mentioned something about USB firmware for Sd2SNES earlier. Is that something that has to be installed in addition to the normal firmware one would install (1.9.0 in this case)
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:17
ALTTP has PLENTY of screen and door transitions to track in for free. Anybody who's tried to get fast at it knows it's very possible to do so. The slow parts aren't even supported by my implementation, like marking what crystals/pendants are where. (edited)
19:17
Yes, that is a special version of that firmware.
19:18
The Crowd Control setup page has a link to it, I believe, but it can also be gotten from the source, here: https://github.com/RedGuyyyy/sd2snes/releases/tag/usb2snes_v9
RedGuyyyy/sd2snes
SD card based multi-purpose cartridge for the SNES - RedGuyyyy/sd2snes
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19:18
The firmware is included in that distribution
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-24 19:18
I have got to save up for an SD2SNES... but Stone Age doesn't seem to have any of the Pro for sale yet
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:19
Yes, and FYI I obviously don't have the pro yet (also waiting for SAG to get them).
19:19
I am hopeful, based on what I've read, that it will work "out of the box".
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:19
Is the pro available now? I remember hearing it was coming but not what the diffs are
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:19
But I can't guarantee that. It WILL be supported though.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:19
Are the diffs known yet
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-24 19:19
Pro has more RAM for one thing, IIRC
19:20
better FPGA also, as a rumour
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:20
The biggest benefit in this context will be the (as I understand it) ability to use the USB functionality alongside more expansion chips.
19:20
I'm not actually sure if the usb support will function with SMRPG right now, for example
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:20
I just bought my sd2snes a couple months ago, do you think there would be any reason for upgrade
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:20
Due to it using the SA-1 chip, which is VERY heavy
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:21
I would love if there was a way to copy roms over to it via USB or network
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-24 19:21
Also, newer components are in the Pro, as the original design is getting harder to repair and manufacture, as it's parts are getting scarce due to them no longer being made
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:21
So I don't have to keep grabbing that little microsd, converting it, and plugging it into my one machine that has an sd slot
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:21
That exists
19:21
But requires the USB firmware
19:21
And running a custom app
19:22
Which is incidentally included in that firmware distribution I linked
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:22
All the more reason to install it now
19:22
So do I just wipe my sd2snes folder and drop that stuff in it
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:22
I believe somebody else had also built something, but yeah, there is a basic ability to transfer roms over
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:22
I've never updated this stuff before
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:22
Don't wipe your folder
19:22
Back it up
19:22
Then extract the updated firmware over top of it (edited)
19:23
It's a patch to the base firmware, basically
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JRJathome 2019-02-24 19:24
I think this is what you're looking for, Autre. https://github.com/tcprescott/RomLoader
tcprescott/RomLoader
Loads ROMs to an sd2snes using usb2snes. Contribute to tcprescott/RomLoader development by creating an account on GitHub.
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-24 19:25
@Autre31415 IIRC SAG has stated that they are planning to offer discounts for the Pro version when you trade in your Original SD2SNES, assuming you bought it from them, or KRIKzz's version from his store. Depending on your PCB revision, the discount could get your end cost as far down as $99.99
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:25
I might have to take them up on that offer
19:26
Romloader... Wow this is a happy day
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-24 19:26
https://stoneagegamer.com/blog/about-the-sd2snes-pro/ for citation
About the SD2SNES Pro...
WILL WE BE CARRYING IT?Yes, we will be carrying the SD2SNES Pro. However, we are currently working on a complete overhaul of the logo and packaging designs. At this time we have nothing to preview, but hopefully will have something in a couple weeks.WHEN?We only have a limite...
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19:27
Also seems like the NA shell version will be delayed, as the current PCB format for the Pro doesn't fit
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:29
Wow this is so cool
19:29
I just installed that new firmware and loaded up the practice hack and it just started populating stuff instantly
19:30
I had thought it would just wait for an item acquisition event but no it just reads it
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-24 19:30
As it is, I'm also considering ordering the guts for the Everdrive 64v3 to swap out with my v2, for the USB connectivity. The shell I got with the v2 has the spot for the USB port, I'd just have to Dremel out the small bit sealing it off.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:30
Does it read the ram at a set interval or something
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-24 19:31
I need to try it with bizhawk, heh
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:31
@Autre31415 yes, it does.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:32
This is so damn cool
19:33
hahaha it even unmarks the bomb when I run out of them
19:34
I'm messing around with this in the practice hack, it's hilarious watching the entire item state change at once when I select radically different presets
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JRJathome 2019-02-24 19:36
I think the only oddity is it unmarks the mushroom when you turn it in, rather than moving to the next stage of the progressive item.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:37
Might not be different in the memory
19:37
If I were to guess, the tracker doesn't take previous state into consideration, it just reads the memory as is at an interval and marks items accordingly
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JRJathome 2019-02-24 19:38
Most likely
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:38
And if I were to continue conjecture I'd say it probably wouldn't be too difficult to implement state memory persay, but there may be unintended tradeoffs
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:39
There's a bit of code to try to handle that, but ultimately I'm going to redefine how that item works to be a badged item. So, the mushroom will disappear, but it will still show that it was turned in
19:40
That will resolve the issue, such that it works similar to e.g. bombs, which also track the pyramid state
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:40
Probably should do that with the shovel too for consistency sake
19:40
Speaking of which I'm actually surprised there isn't a sick kid badge on the bottle
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:40
Yep, also on my radar
19:41
Both of those, are on my radar, I should say
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:43
Interesting... The tracker doesn't see the bow in the practice hack
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:43
The bow is handled differently in randomizer than it is in the base game
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:43
I figured
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:43
Due to the way silvers can be acquired separately
19:44
Many many things will work in a vanilla rom, but the bow is not one of them
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:44
The flute as well
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:44
Yes
19:44
Also, some location checks are tracked differently
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:44
It was still amusing loading an EP preset and then loading the ganon fight and watching 70% of the tracker light up
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 19:45
You can also see just how much of the state those presets DON'T set.
19:45
Which is neat.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 19:45
Yeah if I loaded up the map part it would go pretty crazy I bet
19:45
Was just looking at the items at the moment
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JRJathome 2019-02-24 21:16
Please don't advertise your streams here.
21:19
Thank you. 😃
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Seraphin Eveles 2019-02-24 21:21
Sorry D:
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Allstin 2019-02-24 21:27
i have snes9x, is the autotracker possible
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 21:28
To use it with emulators, it requires bizhawk with the bsnes core right now.
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Allstin 2019-02-24 21:29
is it a pretty straightforward process?
21:29
i dont mind switching as i havent gotten started much yet. last i really got into rando was like 2017
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blasteg 2019-02-24 21:30
There's a pinned message in general-support, you can try that
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Natalie 2019-02-24 21:31
switching to bizhawk is not very straightforward unfortunately
21:32
there are so many things in it that a casual user would never look at.. but have predefined hotkeys that you'll EASILY hit by typing basically anything ever (edited)
21:33
thoroughly investigate the input configurations and remove everything you won't use and rebind everything you will.
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Allstin 2019-02-24 21:33
i checked the faq, but need to check the other one hmm
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WorksOnMyMachine 2019-02-24 21:39
I just wanted to pop in and say thanks to @EmoSaru. This had to be a difficult task and here just a day after the update it has been working fantastically for me and my friends. I respect the desire to keep this as anti-cheat and above board as possible while still enabling new functionality. You've done some amazing work!
👍 1
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 21:44
Thanks! Glad you're enjoying it.
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Autre31415 2019-02-24 22:07
I just finished a seed and saw the post game info pop up in the tracker, that was awesome
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ミシウス 2019-02-24 23:10
@EmoSaru i though you had no intention to support auto-tracking (edited)
23:11
since that has clearly changed, what changed allowing you to do it? you had given a few reasons as to why not a while back (edited)
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Sal the Dragon 2019-02-24 23:15
the pastebin explains that
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 23:15
The available technology, and the usage of other features by a number of people, like chathud.
23:15
As sourlyme said, I recommend reading the pastebin.
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ミシウス 2019-02-24 23:19
👍
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chenzikoden 2019-02-24 23:23
Alright, so I've never used BizHawk before, and I have the lua loaded (I think), but it says it's missing socket.core or something to that effect.
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Pennyroyal_Oil 2019-02-24 23:25
Yo emo, just a brief drop in to say what I've seen of the auto tracking stuff is awesome, look forward to messing with it when I'm home from work 👀
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EmoSaru 2019-02-24 23:27
Please check the steps in the pinned message in #autotracker-support
23:27
And please direct all auto-tracker support issues there.
23:28
And thanks mentos
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chenzikoden 2019-02-24 23:29
I just saw that after realizing I was in the wrong channel to begin with, Sorry!
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Seraphin Eveles 2019-02-25 00:00
Just made a 2:25:49. I'd say the auto-tracker works pretty well 😄
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-25 02:19
Even a post game report. Not sure how to make it come back
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MrSpeedBump 2019-02-25 02:27
I'm still only getting 4:00+ runs. So I need to do some work on my gameplay
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Merc249 2019-02-25 12:06
I'm sorry you have had to deal with all this community BS Emo. Hope people come to their senses soon enough.
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:06
The LTTPR community as a whole is great, but sometimes the Organizers focus on the wrong things regarding cheating.. I kinda got out when the force implemented the 15 minute delay rule on the stream
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:06
I wanted to put a gg in reaction but I do not have the / thing for the /s
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RetroNutcase 2019-02-25 12:07
That really is a shame. 😦
12:07
I just liked auto-tracking for the convenience factor as I'm not a racer.
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:07
It was an option for me to track without actually look at the tracker, simply for chat enjoyment, since chathud is also banned
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Inven 2019-02-25 12:08
I play maybe one seed every other month just for personal fun, and was really excited to take advantage of auto-tracking going forward. Sorry you can't have nice things, and REALLY sorry you're seeing so many hours thrown away, EmoSaru.
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:08
it's as if clicking on a tracker is a skillset
12:08
/s (edited)
12:09
I can't take advantage of it anyway since I play on a real SNES, but I appreciated it
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RetroNutcase 2019-02-25 12:09
Real SNES is one of the arguments against it from what I've heard.
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SWSquall 2019-02-25 12:10
...I was going to try it out today.
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otherTom 2019-02-25 12:10
this whole thing was disappointing in many ways, and I'm sorry that the effort/time you put in on it didn't work out
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Dangonizer 2019-02-25 12:10
Im really sorry that all your work and efforts for this feature pretty much gone down the drain because of some unreasonable argument (edited)
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:10
Is there a way to make it so it's obvious on the tracker when it's enabled, then they can just make a rule saying "don't enable it?"
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:11
there's no rule saying you have to put a tracker on your stream.
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Felix_TC 2019-02-25 12:11
^
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:11
Well if the ability to auto track exists, then the best course of action is to assume people are doing it
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DDRMANIAC007 2019-02-25 12:11
I feel this is super unfair for the casuals like me
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Ninban 2019-02-25 12:12
It is
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:12
even if Emo isn't the one to develop it, someone will and won't share it
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:12
how is it unfair if it auto tracking
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:12
It's unfair it was removed I think is what they're saying
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:12
it was removed because of the community
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:12
Does anyone even know what is the reason that was given
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:13
Who the hell knows, the LTTPR competitive community made me stop playing it
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:13
go read #announcements
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SWSquall 2019-02-25 12:13
Something something cheating something/
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:13
as they were more concerned about cheating than they were about anything else
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:13
If it is about cheating
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:13
like LTTPR is an esport
12:13
or something
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:13
strong backlash, nasty verbal attacks, accessibility concerns, darkroom/maptracker concerns
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:13
why aren't crowd control races deleted then
12:13
it works the same way
12:14
accessibility concerns? well not everyone can pay a real console
12:14
ban consoles
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:14
no fun allowed in LTTPR Official races
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waterleau 2019-02-25 12:14
we love you @EmoSaru , it's just a tool , free no to be used in tournaments but just a tool ❤
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SarkenHS 2019-02-25 12:14
Yeah, it's not like any racers could ask for a side kick to auto track for thm : c
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DDRMANIAC007 2019-02-25 12:14
The non-casual community apparently gets to decide to remove features for everyone else rather than have their own versions of trackers for their races
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SarkenHS 2019-02-25 12:15
(sorry, I'll stop th sarcasm at just that)
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:15
whats wrong about using it in a tournament if it just tracks?
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:15
Also why was it removed in the end... can't we just ban it from races but use it casually?
12:15
autotracker would anyway mostly have been used casually
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:15
yea, more experienced people wont even need a tracker
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:15
there's 0 way to distinguish between using it and not
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:16
just put a logo behind it showing it's autotracking or something
12:16
or a specific animation
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SicJake 2019-02-25 12:16
Emosaru, thank you for all the work invested In the tracker. Ignore the haters where a le
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SarkenHS 2019-02-25 12:16
As there's zero way you can tell if someon have a friend to track for them so : /
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:16
whats the nproblem tho, its not cheating
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:16
you don't have to put it on stream or anything
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:16
If it's not about cheating in streams what is it about
12:16
who cares if I cheat in my offline seed at 2am
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Zembar 2019-02-25 12:16
Lots of things
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Shayy 2019-02-25 12:16
rando was a mistake
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:16
nah nahh
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:16
also i would just like to clarify that the explanations i'm giving here are not reflective of my views on this whole thing because i do like the autotracker
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SarkenHS 2019-02-25 12:17
And I don't think it's considered chating to use a tracker: I often hear commentary talks about racers uing their own tracker so °°
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DDRMANIAC007 2019-02-25 12:17
Guys even if pros auto tracked does it really matter? Have you proven that auto tracking actually gives a significant advantage?
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:17
yeah, ban trackers entirely, they're tools and apparently tools are cheating
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Zembar 2019-02-25 12:17
Everything from people who see tracking as a unique skill, to people who think the trackers would eventually start playing the game for them
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:17
ban timer too, it is a tool about the time it is
12:18
I wish I knew who started this peta-like hate agaisnt the tracker
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otherTom 2019-02-25 12:18
ban SRL points
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Shayy 2019-02-25 12:18
there's about a million better ways to cheat and yet autotracker is what catches heat
12:18
nice
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SarkenHS 2019-02-25 12:18
Anyway, I feel a bit sorry for the dev who went out of their way to develop it only to b recieved like that... must feel like "wasted effort" : /
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:18
because the tracker is getting more popular than the streamers themselves
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Zembar 2019-02-25 12:18
I wish I didn’t know who started the full on bullshit
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:18
jelly
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RetroNutcase 2019-02-25 12:18
Indeed. I was really appreciative of the Auto Tracker.
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Zembar 2019-02-25 12:19
But I won’t name and shame in here
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SarkenHS 2019-02-25 12:19
Same, I'm kinda new at the random and autotracking would've help me getting used to the game faster
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DDRMANIAC007 2019-02-25 12:19
Do the casuals need to start a bounty on someone making a good auto tracker?
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Zembar 2019-02-25 12:19
And to be honest, a lot of people had valid concerns and questions
12:19
As well
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:19
lol "valid"
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Zembar 2019-02-25 12:19
Well, most of them could be solved
12:19
Like the dark room items
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:19
@ EmoSaru just make another tracker called AutoSaru
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:20
its an auto tracker that just saves you from looking away from the game and clicking an item you got
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:20
Which btw, you can learn to do in door transitions at zero time loss.
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:20
an autotracker just does what people do in their mind
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Zembar 2019-02-25 12:20
They’re even fixing the dark room items regardless, so that’s nice
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Ninban 2019-02-25 12:20
AutoSaru 👍
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:20
thats all it does
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Shayy 2019-02-25 12:20
but clicking is a skill, that's why as of today i'm excited to announce i'm banning autosplitters from all speedgames
12:20
:^)
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:20
What's really sad is that Emo was working with the LTTP Mods/Devs (I think) to make sure it was only tracking things that the player knew. There is ABSOLUTELY a way to write a program that can analyze the rom, route it for you, and track it at the same time
👏 1
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Pokeegodd 2019-02-25 12:20
I use background input so I just click stuff as I move around
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:21
but lets shut down the one person working with us with threats, etc
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Masterlink 2019-02-25 12:21
I actually didnt know autosplitting was a thing lol
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Shayy 2019-02-25 12:21
igt trackers are also cheating so all runs are going to be in RTA once more :^)
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:21
Timers are also cheating, they have a psychological effect on your speed and ability to do things
12:21
source : am psychologist
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SarkenHS 2019-02-25 12:21
I think I'll stop using fullscreen befor I'm accused of having bigger screen helping me seeing pixel better : c
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RetroNutcase 2019-02-25 12:21
I don't have background input so. ._.
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Shayy 2019-02-25 12:21
this just in - running windows on your computer might allow you to cheat by opening google chrome so we have to run everything on linux VMs
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Pokeegodd 2019-02-25 12:22
Retro idk which emu you use
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:22
I will say, if I was Emo, I would just drop LTTPR support entirely. Glad I'm not lol
12:22
Be like, you wanna be shitheads, make your own "official" tracker
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Pokeegodd 2019-02-25 12:22
But within the functions of the emu you should be able to turn on background in put
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RetroNutcase 2019-02-25 12:23
@EmoSaru Dumb question. Is there any way you could somehow have the tracker show an auto-tracker function being on, so people would know and therefore couldn't be used in races? Or would that not work because people would still say there would be a way to cheat with it? :/
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Shayy 2019-02-25 12:23
that community has malformed into one of the most toxic cesspools of beta cells i've ever witnessed in my life
12:23
and i play overwatch.
12:23
that's not good.
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:23
you don't have to put the tracker on stream
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:23
It really is Shay
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RetroNutcase 2019-02-25 12:23
@Espeon Ah... ._.
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Pokeegodd 2019-02-25 12:23
What Espeon said
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DDRMANIAC007 2019-02-25 12:23
My main issue is the decision to remove this affects all the casuals that don't give a hoot about racing or streaming. Is there something wrong about having choice? I don't feel the cheat argument is as valid as you make it out to be.
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:23
therefore you can't be forced to provide evidence like that
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Pokeegodd 2019-02-25 12:23
The one I use is in a browser window
12:24
Which doesn't have to be sourced if I don't want
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:24
the question I have then is how map trackers aren't a cheat tool to those people
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:24
The LTTPR Races will require full shell access to your computer to make sure you are not running any "unapproved software" in the future..
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:24
@RetroNutcase There is no way I can do that that is not either... a) Circumventable b) Ugly as fuck on your stream
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RetroNutcase 2019-02-25 12:24
Alas...Again. As a casual player, I LOVED the idea. 😦
cmdtvLove 1
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:24
good lord the alttpr discord is blowing up
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:24
EmoTracker was built around a customization engine designed specifically to allow streamers to make their on-stream trackers look great, while still having a usable tracker UI
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:24
it might be more toxic now than it was yesterday
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:24
Anything I do to watermark your stream is, in my opinion, a violation of the purpose of the app. So, I'm not going to do it.
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:25
What if it just had some AutoSaru logo in the background of the items
12:25
it's your tracker, you can totally put its logo somewhere?
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RetroNutcase 2019-02-25 12:25
@A System of Vibrant Colors Issue remains, tracker doesn't have to be shown.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:25
Sorry, let me be clear. I 100% CAN do it.
12:25
I just refuse.
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RetroNutcase 2019-02-25 12:25
So someone could use it without showing it.
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592 2019-02-25 12:25
I fully understand your decision for disabling it the auto tracker. I swear some people can be such babies sometimes and hope someone else is going to solve all their problems for them.
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:25
Oh okay
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RetroNutcase 2019-02-25 12:25
So people would still bitch.
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:25
But starting from the point trackers don't need to be shown
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:25
Future LTTPR Race Rules: 1) You must stream with a 4 DAY Delay 2) You must give us access to all your social media accounts so we may see if you are talking bad about LTTPR 3) You must give us access to your computer at ANY time so we can make sure you are not running unapproved Software 4) You must have a camera BEHIND you facing your monitors so we can see you physically reach over and click on your tracker YOURSELF, nobody can help (Add more as you see fit)
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:26
you can ban every single tracker of the world
12:26
because you don't see them so we don't know what they do
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android_dreams 2019-02-25 12:26
Lol. Watching both discords explode is not helping my productivity at work
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:26
can we not unnecessarily shittalk the community pls
12:26
there's not really a reason to do so
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:26
if you want to hate things peta is pretty lit atm
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Sal the Dragon 2019-02-25 12:26
Auto tracking was removed. Deal with it. The end
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592 2019-02-25 12:27
Agreed, let's hate PETA. We can all agree on that
😂 1
🙏 1
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Inven 2019-02-25 12:27
See, SourLyme, someone could've said "Auto tracking was added. Deal with it. The end."
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Neomatamune 2019-02-25 12:27
We wish it was dumb people who got removed instead of autotracking
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Inven 2019-02-25 12:27
but clearly that didn't pan out 😛
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fylion 2019-02-25 12:27
fiz pls
12:27
only #1
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:27
lol
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fylion 2019-02-25 12:27
I don't need your bad facebook memes I can get those from my aunt
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:27
"this run is prerecorded"
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Ninban 2019-02-25 12:27
ban tracking
12:27
ez
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fylion 2019-02-25 12:27
nah I kid ❤
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:28
FYI, I'm letting this discussion roll on because a lot of people are pissed off, in all directions right now, and this forum is for "whatevs, if it's relevant". Please keep it civil though, and let's not draw comparisons to other groups that incite strong feelings one way or another.
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592 2019-02-25 12:28
understood
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android_dreams 2019-02-25 12:29
I just want to take a minute to say thanks to @EmoSaru and all the other @Pack Developer people for using your time and passion for projects like this. I hope this situation doesn’t impact your drive to help the community.
irisisKiss 2
moon2CUTE 4
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Fluxxdog 2019-02-25 12:29
@EmoSaru At the very least, thanks for all your hard work. With my hands, the auto-tracker was a god send while it lasted.
moon2CUTE 3
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Pokeegodd 2019-02-25 12:29
You know what I wish I had. A shining force Max Sprite to play as
woo 1
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592 2019-02-25 12:30
Yes we appreciate all the hard work that you do and appreciate the tracker for what it is.
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Locklen 2019-02-25 12:30
Its a shame that this got canned with such a short time for people to play around with it.
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beenieweenie 2019-02-25 12:30
I'm currently polling the SMRPG community to look into auto-tracking for that rando. Thank you Emo for all you do. sakuLove
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tucker87 2019-02-25 12:30
Yeah, I was extremely excited to try out the tracker. Sad to hear that there is drama. 😦
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:31
I will say that I met some great people from the LTTPR community, but the Organizers and the Hardcore competitors over there really make me not want to even associate with it anymore 😦
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DDRMANIAC007 2019-02-25 12:31
Any other trackers that have good auto tracking?
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Shayy 2019-02-25 12:32
i mean, come on now, the autotracker is clearly cheating. with that automatic clicking you can easily figure out that the play is to go to pod, mirror to eastern, don't do eastern, leave, and go get zora. (edited)
👌 5
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:32
mirror to pod LinkFace
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 12:33
mirror to pod in your inverted seed then switch to standard and mirror back to eastern
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Smashface 2019-02-25 12:33
This whole thing blows. You did an amazing job with this and youve spent so much time and effort making the auto tracking. Just hope this doesnt keep you down and I hope you keep on making awesome ideas for the tracker. sakuLove
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:34
Other game communities that are interested are more than welcome to continue enjoying the fruits of that labor.
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:34
FF4FE?
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Shayy 2019-02-25 12:34
So... all of them except for ALTTPR?
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:34
i am really hoping for oot autotracking tbh since there are so many tiny boxes in that game it's hard to get all of them
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WorksOnMyMachine 2019-02-25 12:35
Whoever is complaining can just not turn on the auto tracker. If some purists want to see it as cheating then fine. Cheats have been optional since some of the first video games.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:35
@Shayy It's up to them to decide what is okay and what is not, and set rules. But all of them are welcome to use the autotracker support, and I am happy to work with their admin teams on restricting auto-tracker access to the safe parts of memory. (edited)
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Inven 2019-02-25 12:35
@Fiz plz, there's no logic to worry about keeping up with in FE 😄
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:35
true Inven lol
12:35
I just want it to auto click the items I get, Characters I have, and bosses I've beaten
12:35
lol
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Toma 2019-02-25 12:35
so.. this is where I don't update emo-tracker right >.>
12:35
I'm not racing, and I like autotracker :3
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:36
I mean there's no way they can curb cheating anyway. What's to stop you from just grabbing the ROM and giving it to 10 friends and having everyone take different routes? Nothing
12:36
They can't stop that
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 12:36
my understanding is that there won't be a way around removing autotracking
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Toma 2019-02-25 12:36
whelp time to try it 😄
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Pokeegodd 2019-02-25 12:36
Disable the ethernets
12:37
But then you can't race, or download seeds LUL
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Shayy 2019-02-25 12:37
ALTTPR wasn't meant to be like this :(
12:37
i miss the old days
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:37
My issue is that LTTPR turned into something that it wasn't when I started.. It's now a hyper competitive environment where people are more concerned with winning than having fun (edited)
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Shayy 2019-02-25 12:37
competitive RNG
12:38
ah yes my favorite pastime
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WorksOnMyMachine 2019-02-25 12:38
I literally described this to my friends as the golden age of rando.
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DDRMANIAC007 2019-02-25 12:38
You will never stop cheaters who are determined. Trying to do so is pointless and only harms the rest of the community.
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Shayy 2019-02-25 12:38
IMO the way rando is best played and the most fun i've seen had with it is in small friendly races
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:38
It's a Goddamned Randomizer, If I go one way and you go the other, one of us is right, but that person isn't more skilled
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:38
I guarantee you that somebody else has written this, with no limitations.
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Shayy 2019-02-25 12:38
not this weekly tourney nonsense
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Pokeegodd 2019-02-25 12:38
So effectively this would be the industrial revolution correct?
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:38
Exactly Emo
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:38
I could build an in-memory seed solver, right now.
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android_dreams 2019-02-25 12:39
Let’s be real. Most people who NEED an auto tracker (not that enjoy it from convenience) can’t even qualify for their tournaments
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:39
I don't, because I'm a good person.
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:39
And that's what I was trying to say, a seed can be solved and routed before it's even ran
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Kauz 2019-02-25 12:39
The ALttPR community is making me feel like Tommy Wiseau. You're tearing me apart, Lisa!!!!!!
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:39
I bet someone HAS written that TBH, just because people like to see if they can
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flagrama 2019-02-25 12:40
if you can get auto-tracking to work with actualy SNES/N64/etc hardware, I bet a lot more people would be open to an auto tracker... but as it stands it is kind of unfair that emulator users get free auto tracking
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Merc249 2019-02-25 12:40
So, any alternatives for auto-tracking right now?
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Pokeegodd 2019-02-25 12:40
Go to sanctuary, stop by blind's hut to get 600 rupees. Stop by the taco Bell in kakariko. Seed completed
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Synack 2019-02-25 12:40
It works on sd2snes...
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:40
It's kinda unfair that Real Hardware users get free lag-free gaming
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Merc249 2019-02-25 12:40
Free?
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flagrama 2019-02-25 12:40
that doesn't work for N64 since there is more lag Kappa
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Merc249 2019-02-25 12:40
Uh
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DDRMANIAC007 2019-02-25 12:40
Maybe if we shut down super competitive races the community would be more healthy for it /s
👌 2
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:40
I'm just using the same analogy
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:40
i know of at least one person who does have an autotracker
12:41
not gonna say who but it's clearly doable
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Pokedude14 2019-02-25 12:41
@Pokeegodd you forgot to follow the darn train.
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 12:41
wait a minute, casual players can't use the autotracker anymore?
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:41
Nobody can
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:41
the good thing with autotracker being banned is that it makes my day uniformally bad news at least it'll be easy to write down
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 12:41
why not?
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flagrama 2019-02-25 12:41
I'll by an ED64 3.0 for auto tracking if I have to, just saying
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:41
people got nasty
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flagrama 2019-02-25 12:41
(OoTR of course)
12:41
(IDC about ALTTPR)
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DDRMANIAC007 2019-02-25 12:41
Because people are too elitist
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Pokeegodd 2019-02-25 12:42
@Pokedude14 shoot your right. I also forgot getting lunch with Zelda at Arby's in the seed route
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flagrama 2019-02-25 12:42
but then again, on OoTR you have to deal with VC too so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Pokedude14 2019-02-25 12:42
@Pokeegodd and that's why I finished 10 light years ago.
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Espeon 2019-02-25 12:43
i'm playing ootr on dolphin
12:44
which means that i'm emulating an n64 with vc emulator inside a wii emulator
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DDRMANIAC007 2019-02-25 12:44
On a serious note if the competitive side of the community continues down this road they will kill off the casual side which would argubily kill the community in general
protonSad 1
tovgRip 1
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Fiz 2019-02-25 12:46
well I have no dog in this race TBH, but I thought it was incredibly shitty and further confirms what direction I saw the LTTPR Competitive community going in
12:47
Sorry you had to deal with it @EmoSaru
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Toma 2019-02-25 12:47
yeah, I just feel bad towards anyone who has to deal with un-needed negativity.
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Beldraith 2019-02-25 12:49
Never intended to do a race. Was excited for the Auto Tracker and now it is already gone? Good Job...
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Toma 2019-02-25 12:49
I think that came out wrong, I feel sorry for anyone who had to deal with the negative backlash
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Castiel Crownguard 2019-02-25 12:49
aw im sorry that this stuff happened, i was thinking about jumping back in for a casual randomiser , since i found it tedious to track everything by hand, shame that it isn't allowed anymore 😦
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Alriightyman 2019-02-25 12:49
This was rather disappointing... I went from excited to disappointed in less than 24 hours. I only play rando for fun, and I liked having the auto-tracker when I was using it last night...
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Toma 2019-02-25 12:50
I used it this morning, I was really looking forward to it
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:51
@Alriightyman you have no idea.
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Alriightyman 2019-02-25 12:51
@EmoSaru I just want to say that your tracker is absolutely amazing.
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Beldraith 2019-02-25 12:51
Is there a way to manipulate the games state with the LUA scripts? So it might be possible for race roms to have a kill player routine if activated
12:52
I agree this auto tracker was brilliant and I am sad that it has already gone
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 12:52
I have very specifically ensured that Lua scripts are not allowed to write data back to the game in EmoTracker.
12:52
It's too easy to do malicious things.
12:53
I'm open to working with communities if they have specific use cases and we can figure out a reasonably secure and safe (for users) way to do it, but it's not on the table for now, for any game.
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Toma 2019-02-25 12:53
LUA is a very powerful tool in games that can be manipulated
12:53
I helped write a few tools for IRE's MUD games like Imperian and Achaea
12:53
LUA is a great scripting tool for that
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A System of Vibrant Colors 2019-02-25 12:54
all I know is that LUA scripts allow multitroid to work
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 12:57
@EmoSaru your work on the autotracker is the right thing to do for growing the alttpr community, I'm very disappointed in the alttpr team's decision to remove it
12:57
I don't understand what's going on over there
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Beldraith 2019-02-25 12:58
Yeah I can understand this. Write access could open the door for a lot of malicious stuff. Was just an idea. Thanks anyway EmoSaru for your hard work
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 12:58
you don't remove a helpful tool that engages casual players and stream viewers just because it could be abused for cheating
12:58
that's a failure of tournament organization
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Toma 2019-02-25 12:58
the thing is, write access already exists, the tools are already there and can be used, code is already a tool, those who use it as a weapon are wrong.
12:59
its not like EmoSaru opened a door, she just used one that has existed for 20+ years now
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 12:59
I was literally working on a lua script for an autotracker myself
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tucker87 2019-02-25 12:59
Lua writing back is how Crowd Control and coop work even. I play Coop LttP all the time with a Lua script.
👍 1
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 12:59
because I felt like it was such an important feature that alttpr needs to have in the future
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CasualGeekDave 2019-02-25 13:01
I'm sorry you have had to deal with any hardship because of this stuff EmoSaru. I've been using your tracker for a long time now and I really appreciate your hard work. ❤ ❤
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:01
same
13:02
I hope you don't become discouraged over this event
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Usurper Grimm 2019-02-25 13:03
I say leave it active, you have put in a lot of hard work and time into this. We all appreciate you and if the people don't want auto tracking used in competitive matches then they should figure out how to police that themselves.
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CasualGeekDave 2019-02-25 13:03
For the 24 hours it was active, I enjoyed the feature, but I understand not wanting any part of the madness.
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:03
@EmoSaru Could you elaborate on this part a bit if you don't mind: "Please continue to enjoy upcoming auto-tracker support in games with communities that are open to it, and which have community members who actually think critically about what their current level of security is. FYI, for ALTTPR, it's effectively zero" I would be curious what you mean with level of security. I mean you wrote the security for Emu Tracker did you not? Do you mean security in the ROM itself to prevent cheating?
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Fiz 2019-02-25 13:03
Emo meant the game
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:04
I agree that re-enabling the autotracking is the right move
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 13:04
just for ALttp because the rest of the community crapped itself at this feature (other than the people here)
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:04
well, I won't demand it or anything
13:05
but I think it's important to stand up to this ridiculous decision and give casual players access to this tool
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 13:05
^^
13:05
Like i can maybe understand for tournaments but in the casual area ?
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:05
unless it's going to cause more chaos and they are actually working hard behind the scenes on something to re-enable it very soon
13:05
but I'm not getting an indication that they are
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:06
the problem is that there is no way to distinguish between a race rom and non-race rom as-is in alttp
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Pokeegodd 2019-02-25 13:06
there isn't really a way to make it available to casual without also making it available to competitive?
13:06
and that
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:06
or rather no way to do it reliably, without being easily circumventable
13:06
therefore we cannot both allow casual players to use it freely but also address the use in races
13:07
not until race roms are better put together
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:07
Well I can understand why people would be cautious at least. Cheating can not be prevented ever with these things, so you need to be an open book during this discussion. Be honest that cheating can not be stopped, but make it annoying as possible. Of course anyone can just write an unofficial app anyway, but I think people see an "official" community endorsed app in a different light. They want certain assurances you can't really make, hence this whole thing will always be hard to allow
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 13:07
ok if they fear the missuse if the auto tracker in races.. WHY THE HEKC DONT THEY MAKE THEIR OWN TRACKER A RACER HAS TO USE ?
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Usurper Grimm 2019-02-25 13:08
Realistically they could still be using the auto tracker and not capturing it
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:08
what needs to be done to make roms distinguishable?
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:08
you can't force anyone to use a particular tracker
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Merc249 2019-02-25 13:08
To have auto-tracking finally be a thing and then it's taken away because of ignorance. It sucks.
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 13:08
and how would you check if someone is not using other means of cheating ?
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Merc249 2019-02-25 13:08
And the most recent rando discord announcement only confirms that a minority of the minority is responsible for this, basically
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:08
you can't
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:08
you cant
13:09
there is literally no point even spending a minute of work on this
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:09
you can't tell whether people are using this in a race
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Fiz 2019-02-25 13:09
or anything
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flagrama 2019-02-25 13:09
but its fun to see the ones who are obvious about their cheating :P
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Usurper Grimm 2019-02-25 13:09
Exactly you can't if people are going to cheat they're going to find a way to cheat no if ands or buts so all this over the autotracker is just stupid and should be allowed
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 13:09
it would require work on the alttpr side of things to better distinguish race roms
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:09
how much work
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 13:09
non trivial work, at that
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:09
gonna be honest. there is more anger about it getting taken away than there is about it getting added LUL
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 13:10
How are they checking if a racer has another pc/phone open to watch the other racer ?
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:10
this is hilarious and ridiculous
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Fiz 2019-02-25 13:10
@Cryorus They implemented a stream delay rule for that one
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Kauz 2019-02-25 13:10
All I gotta say is I'm sad to see it go. Oh well, that won't stop the music discussions during your streams @EmoSaru barbLove
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:10
well the obvious ways of cheating is what people indeed have an issue with, now with an official app out there that could be cracked. Nevermind you can just write your own, but people dont think like that. They think the work has been done now and the floodgates to hell are opened. When they were always open already, this was always a game of trust. But I dont think everyone gets or wants to get that
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Fluxxdog 2019-02-25 13:11
@Espeon Hilarious and ridiculous that people are coming up with so many other ways of cheating that are already available?
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:11
I don't understand, anybody can write a lua script
13:11
people could have been cheating this entire time without anybody knowing
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Fiz 2019-02-25 13:11
Wouldn't you rather have an easily accessible auto tracker that you knew was secure and followed your rules, than dozens of auto trackers self developed that do who knows what?
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:11
people are cheating
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:12
if they were okay with that possibility before, why are they not okay with it now
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:12
this is not an argument or accusation
13:12
but like it does happen
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:12
basic fact
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:12
right
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:12
of course some people do
13:12
and you can never detect it
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android_dreams 2019-02-25 13:12
I’m having deja vu to when Riot added buff/dragon timers to LoL. It’s like that all over again.
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:12
so what does removing the autotracker to improve the situation
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:12
nothing.
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 13:12
and this feature wouldnt change anything about the fact that people are cheating
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:12
it seems ineffective (edited)
13:12
ugh
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:12
nothing has changed except people were given a taste of something nice and then had it taken away
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:12
even if you enforce emu tracker usage on stream, emu tracker is hackable and anyone could create a look alike to get around this. There is no point to any of this
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 13:12
it does one thing
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Usurper Grimm 2019-02-25 13:13
Can someone explain to me how it is that an auto tracker could even be used to cheat when all it's doing is reading the ram to see what changed so they can mark it off? Eli5
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 13:13
it means the mods don't need to deal with constant backlash from many people who are their friends (edited)
13:13
I don't fault them for making a call that stops that
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Fluxxdog 2019-02-25 13:13
One major thing has changed. From now on, any official race will have to ask, "How did the racers cheat?"
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Fiz 2019-02-25 13:13
I don't agree with these reason (preface) but they said they had issues with it seeing what items you got in dark rooms, and also that it wasn't available to absolutely everyone, regardless of how they played the game
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RedGyarados2010 2019-02-25 13:13
Haven’t we always said that it’s near impossible to cheat without being really obvious, since the cheater will clearly be making too many “coincidental” plays?
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 13:14
I mean autotracking realistically should make no difference in your playmaking
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 13:14
it doesnt
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:14
it doesn't but it makes it more engaging
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:14
cheating that matters is obvious
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Fiz 2019-02-25 13:14
People acting like reaching over and clicking a button that says "I got the hookshot" is a skill that you have to master
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:14
so it doesn't really matter
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:14
@Usurper Grimm You could hack emu tracker to cheat for you. Which is not a solid argument, but people will do it. Also people have issues with the fact that an auto tracker removes manual work for you, which is "skill". And not everyone wants to use it so they feel it is unfair. Ofc anyone can use it in secret, but this is about "officiality"
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:14
to people watching
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:14
@dragonbane0 No, you can't.
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 13:15
you picked a item in a darkroom ? oh let me imediatly flash my pause screen to SEE the item i picked up
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:15
it's not just inventory tracking Fiz
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:15
Not without effectively doing the effort of building your own thing.
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:15
do what?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:15
You cannot trivially modify EmoTracker to allow unprotected ram access.
13:15
It would be easier to build your own autotracker.
13:15
Not even joking.
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:15
yeah
13:16
just write a lua script and look up the address values you are interested in
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Fiz 2019-02-25 13:16
@halgorithm it does locations too, ok, so 2 clicks, that doesn't make it much more skillful
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:17
@Fiz autotracking has more potential than you give it credit for
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Fiz 2019-02-25 13:17
I meant what was in EmoTracker
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flagrama 2019-02-25 13:17
what measures are taken to keep me from just modifying the C# bytecode? I've seen games modded just by modifying that
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Fiz 2019-02-25 13:17
not in general
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halgorithm 2019-02-25 13:17
right now that may be true
13:17
but it's a foundation to be built upon in the future
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flagrama 2019-02-25 13:17
lol
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:17
haha
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Fiz 2019-02-25 13:17
well ok
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:17
@dragonbane0 yes, but there's additional patches coming.
13:17
And also you can get fucked.
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:17
then thats good
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:17
Do that again and get banned.
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Fiz 2019-02-25 13:18
that confirms that was correct lol
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flagrama 2019-02-25 13:18
lol
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:18
I can't be encouraging this type of shit.
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Ninban 2019-02-25 13:18
The tone was incredibly bad
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:18
Frankly, anybody who's willing to do that kind of crap should just build their own thing.
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flagrama 2019-02-25 13:18
but why would they when you already opened up the ability to do it
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LostThePirate 2019-02-25 13:18
I don't think folks realize he's one of the 3 main devs on a popular randomizer...
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Fluxxdog 2019-02-25 13:18
What I don't get is why these concerns came about now. EmoSaru had been testing this publicly including in races. This wasn't a surprise.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:18
Are you talking to me? I don't care about that.
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:18
Sorry, I wouldnt mind helping you out on it either improving it. Im merely curious if you claim that security was a concern for you as Im involed with ooTR
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:19
I already have code changes on my machine to improve that. Up until today, it wasn't a high priority fix because LTTP wasn't shitting itself.
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:21
Okay. Again, no offence and sorry for posting it out there. Good to hear you are making improvements. I would like to maybe one day have it used for OoT, but the community also has a lot of resistence to the idea
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:21
Honestly, I look forward to working with other communities. DM'ing me about stuff like that is fine, but posting that here is not what I would consider building a productive working relationship.
13:21
I also completely understand the resistence.
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:21
accepted
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:21
To be clear, I'm not trying to force people into this.
13:21
It's available. (edited)
13:22
If communities want it, then have it. If not, that's fine too.
13:22
The main difference between me and the bad actors is that I'm willing to work with people on making it reasonably safe for the vast majority of users.
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Cryorus 2019-02-25 13:25
Wouldnt it be ok if you made one for casuals and made it pretty obvious that it is NOT the race approved one ?
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:25
No.
13:25
Because that is not realistically possible right now. (edited)
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fylion 2019-02-25 13:26
My read on that is that if the base alttpr roms were changed to make it realistically possible, that might change things.
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Pokeegodd 2019-02-25 13:27
idk why my brain shifted to the audio clip thing in an old video I used to watch that said it was a "insert branding" production naryDerp
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:27
It might, fylion. But the changes they would have to make would be SIGNIFICANT.
13:27
And would also likely affect in-game performance.
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duncathan_salt 2019-02-25 13:27
at the very least it seems that until that were done it's a distinct non possibility
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Edos 2019-02-25 13:27
all discussions about the autotracking reminded me when Dragon ball fighterz released the 2.0 patch xD
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fylion 2019-02-25 13:28
Aye, I see what you're saying.
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wolfman2000 2019-02-25 13:31
Unsure which room this should go in, but...Emo, do what you need to. I presumed the auto tracking support was opt-in anyway, and I'm fine with the good old fashioned method of clicking. Honestly, I should take advantage of the note taking features more, so I'm at least grateful that that has not gone away. Keep up the good work.
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LKJeremy 2019-02-25 13:34
For what it's worth, I appreciate the time and effort you put into the Auto-tracker @EmoSaru . I wish people didn't have to be little shits and ruin a good thing for the rest of us. Thank you for the work you do, regardless.
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TreZc0_ 2019-02-25 13:36
i'm pretty sure there would have been way less backlash if there had been commuication to the community core early enough and if the security solution was actually ...well...secure. (edited)
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flagrama 2019-02-25 13:36
new game idea: Security or Speedbump?
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TreZc0_ 2019-02-25 13:36
so yea, big time investment alright, but the entire meta handling around it was abysmal
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YumenoSami 2019-02-25 13:36
it would be nice if the alttpr comunity was actually trustworthy. people freak out about cheating because it already exists within the competitve side of the game.
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TreZc0_ 2019-02-25 13:37
it exists for all randomizers.
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flagrama 2019-02-25 13:37
cheating exists for all competitive events really
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TreZc0_ 2019-02-25 13:37
thinking any different is naive
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:39
Realistically, there is nothing stopping anybody from building their own version of this without even speedbumps.
13:40
The goal of anything I did here is simply to make it so that it's not trivial for most users to circumvent.
13:40
It's a C# app.
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x10power | FFMQ Tracker 2019-02-25 13:40
no matter what im gonna be using emotracker nothing gonna change that!
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:40
There are limits to what I can do.
13:40
Even in the best case scenario.
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:40
it needs to be accepted and openly accepted at that if you want to push official apps into the fold. The perception of official is important to people. I quite a few of talks to make before it was ultimatively allowed to allow a console autosplitter in TP, a community I manage. Same deal with TWW HD, where I wrote several hacking tools to assist glitch hunting. I had to implement hidden water marks, console verification in assembly and after all of that some people still didnt want it, but ultimatively it was accepted after I convinced people that this was the best it would get, but you cant prevent cheating and there could be tools already out there anyway doing the same thing and no one can change that
13:41
doing this discussion and making people realize made the difference
13:41
it took ages
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wolfman2000 2019-02-25 13:41
As someone that has forked a tracker, I get how hard the work is. I'm sure there are ways to break my app and allow cheating.
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TreZc0_ 2019-02-25 13:41
nobody doubts that. it's all about how it was done and presented here imo
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:41
@dragonbane0 Exactly. The worst thing here is that I did exactly that with the admins, and here we are anyway.
13:41
That is honestly the worst part.
13:41
I would rather have not announced anything at all.
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flagrama 2019-02-25 13:41
admins aren't the community unfortunately
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:42
sadly it is this
13:42
I understand you can not realistically talk to the entire community
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TreZc0_ 2019-02-25 13:42
let's put it like this
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:42
so the admins kinda have to do sometimes and they seemingly failed at their job
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TreZc0_ 2019-02-25 13:42
if this was attempted like this in ootr
13:42
the result would have been worse
13:42
but to be fair, i would have turned you down from the start, as hard as this sounds.
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:42
how could it be worse than the current shitstorm 👀
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:42
@dragonbane0 Certainly not gonna argue with that.
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wolfman2000 2019-02-25 13:42
...but aren't you one of the admins Trez? I always thought you kept a level head.
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:43
@TreZc0_ Which btw, would have been a perfectly acceptable outcome. (edited)
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TreZc0_ 2019-02-25 13:43
that's why i said it wolf
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dragonbane0 2019-02-25 13:43
either way, as an admin myself I would have been slaughtered if I pushed this through through mod channels only. Which was perhaps how this was done. I had to talk to a lot of people privately to get this done and thats a small discord
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:43
I spent many months refusing to build this, lol. (edited)
13:43
It only happened when people said okay.
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wolfman2000 2019-02-25 13:44
...I am curious on something. I don't know all of the details (and I welcome anyone that wishes to DM dump it permission to do so), but...does this have to do with some of the recent LTTP based tournaments having money on the line?
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flagrama 2019-02-25 13:45
I approve of my german overlord over at OoTR. He hasn't done anything without the communities' approval yet
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TreZc0_ 2019-02-25 13:45
aww
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wolfman2000 2019-02-25 13:45
Or am I just trying to tie two completely different threads together?
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TreZc0_ 2019-02-25 13:45
i never would
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EmoSaru 2019-02-25 13:46
@wolfman2000 It has absolutely nothing to do with that.
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wolfman2000 2019-02-25 13:46
Thank you for that piece of clarification.
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flagrama 2019-02-25 13:47
also I may have done something without a communities' approval in the past Kappa
13:47
it never ends well
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Espeon 2019-02-25 13:47
it's not actually related but they might be very tangentially related, in that the money resulted in increased competitiveness and suspicion
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